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Thread: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Causes
    There are many causes of human trafficking to Australia. Project Respect argues that the demand for trafficked women in Australia is fueled by: 1) a lack of women in Australia prepared to do prostitution; 2) 'customer' demand for women seen as compliant; 3) 'customer' demand for women who they can be violent towards; and 4) racialized ideas that Asian women have certain qualities, for example that they are more compliant and will accept higher levels of violence.5
    HumanTrafficking.org | Australia

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    "Project Respect argues that the demand for trafficked women in Australia is fueled by ..."

    Bolding is mine. Argues is not proof. I haven't read the link or any of your links, but I'll check them out tomorrow and maybe do a little research of my own if I can. Most of what you have posted has been correlation - country X legalized prostitution and then experienced an upswing in human trafficing. Its theorized or argued that legalized prostitution is the cause of this upswing, but has it been proven? There are plenty of variables that could affect both the legal status of prostitution and the flow of human trafficing.

    Again, I'm not saying you're wrong. Its a intuititive and sensible theory, but I am saying that correlation does not prove causation. A classic example would be the following:

    Blacks have a higher criminal rate than whites in America. Therefor there is a correlation between being black and being a criminal. But being black does not cause criminal behavior. The variables that have causation are things like economic status and education levels. Blacks have lower education levels and higher rates of poverty which in turn fuel their higher criminal rate. Race has nothing to do with it.

    Sometimes correlation is the best you can get in study. Some variables cannot ethicially be controlled, tested, or eliminated, so we make do with correlation. But we always have to remember that correlation does not equal causation.

    But still have not explained why we cannot crack down on human trafficing and have legalized prostitution. You seem to argue that they are mutally exclusive when they are not.
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    I understand the argument. Just cause women get raped more during the months they eat ice cream doesn't mean ice cream is the cause of rapes. I think that particular example comes from Galen.

    But in this case the causation factor is common sense. If prostitution was legalized everywhere in the world all at once then legalization would not cause an influx of crime and human trafficking. It's when you create little "sin cities" so to speak that you have problems. Little dens of legalized prostitution cause men who live outside those areas to infiltrate for a little sex tourism. The demand for prostitutes rises to levels that can't be sustained within the community with willing native women. Rather than just loose out on all that tourist dough suppliers go out of their way to find ways to meet demand which means importing sex slaves.

    It's not the prostitution itself, it's the "pockets of legalized open prostitution" that draw in a higher demand.

    I think it's pretty sound and so do other nations as they back off legalization prostitution after monitoring the effects it has had in other nations.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Whether or not she should have supplemented her income that way is not the point.
    No no, that's the entire point.

    The article selected a single working woman under financial stress for a reason: to assume the debate posture of 'defend the victim'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Prostitution is part of the job market and should be treated as such, and workers should have the freedom to go down that road if they so choose.

    Good for New Zealand.
    That's some quality you have there

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No no, that's the entire point.

    The article selected a single working woman under financial stress for a reason: to assume the debate posture of 'defend the victim'.
    I wasn't really defending the victim, just the idea that a person should be able to work in this industry as part of the job market without suffering legal consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's some quality you have there
    Since you haven't elaborated on why you think it's a spin, I'll take this as an ad hom and nothing more.


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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I've already shown her how legality does not matter in the human sex trade. She does not care about the reality at hand. As long as "morality" is enforced via the state everything is fine and dandy in her opinion.
    This sort of morality is a necessity for the state to enforce. We have children running around in this country, and prostitution isn't family-oriented, it just isn't. It's not nice for Daddy to be getting serviced by a stranger when he's got Mommy at home, and she's more than willing. Daddy needs to learn self-control. What do you think prostitution will do to the family if it was legal everywhere? Men are very sexual beings. The guys I've known have been. Women have desires, but it's more subdued and probably is because if it weren't we'd have an even worse out of control population than we already have.

    This argument has always been around to some degree I'm sure since the beginnings of time, but women have to eventually be the smarter ones, and in today's world I'm not so sure they really are. Too much sex everywhere like this is all there is to life. Gimme a break.
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Legalizing it means the people participating are no longer criminals. They're able to seek help when they need it. THey're able to claim the income and pay their taxes. I don't give a hoot how much money they're able to make, that isn't the issue. The issue is freedom and safety.


    That's not the case in brothels in Nevada. And I certainly wasn't working for an "elite service" when I started. I checked out the elite services, and I assure you... I didn't fit in. I didn't have the ****ing money to work for an elite service that required expensive wardrobes.

    The reason I bring up my experience is precisely because it flies in the face of the misconceptions that you and others share about the business. You guys read some articles online and think you know everything there is to know. You read articles that are AIMED at misinforming you. They focus only on the lowest common denominator and ignore the majority of the people in the industry. THAT is why I bring up my experience.

    I do not bring up my experience because I think prostitution should be legal so more women can make a bunch of money. The amount of money they'd make is irrelevant. What is relevant is freedom, liberty, safety for both the prostitutes and the clients, and destigmatizing the industry as a whole. I don't give a **** if they end up making minimum wage. That isn't the issue.
    I see some of your points, but we're too family-oriented of a society to buy into it. We've lived without the legalization so far, and it's still around, but nobody cares about these people that much. They're not a sympathetic bunch for most American's. When the blacks got discriminated upon, and were literally getting hosed down, now that was criminal, but prostitutes aren't seen as people, they are more like machines. This is how it is, they made their bed, so to speak.

    Now Amsterdam and those places have always been very liberal, and most people probably go there for the curiosity, but nobody comes back and says, "man, I'd like to live there". If it were that great people would be flocking there.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Doesn't mean they are right though.
    Regardless of the service, they are using the age ol method of "Sex Sells". You don't seem to have a problem with a pretty waitress flirting with patrons to get money, why do you have a problem with one that gives them what the want?
    Only because of the taboo people in society puts on it.
    you may not have heard it, but ask many porn stars and strippers that are successful at it ask if they regret it and most say NO.
    Iit's only low class to people such as yourself. Others view it as a profession.
    So now we come to the real reason you hate these people. Jealousy, they can more than you on a 9 to 5 and you hate that.
    Again, only to jealous types such as yourself.
    It's how most in the buisness do it. They are getting PAID to do a job, just like anyone else would. You are just jealous they are getting paid more than you would.
    Again, that is your personal opinion. When you go into a restaurant you order food and drink that you want. It is no different in a brothel, you order the sex you want.
    The difference is you look down on a service you feel is immoral. Well guess what? Your immoral opinions don't matter to everyone.
    Ok, but you didn't really address any of the issues of the conversation, you're just trying to sling mud at me, personally. I am millions of people, and there are more of us than there are of you.

    I do admit I look down on it and it's for the reasons I stated. I look down on the profession, not necessarily the people who do it. I'd give them as much of a break as I do anybody.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas. Something else there is causing the human trafficking.

    Maybe its the fact that prostitution is illegal that is causing it.
    It's probably legal somewhere in a close proximity to it.

    from Wikipedia;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    I would be sick with grief if my kid did this or pornography for a living. I had a relative who did some porno and when you even mention it it gets a really creepy feeling amongst all of us who knew this person. It's embarrassing to know he did this. It's embarrassing, but it's almost like a slap in the face to all of us in the family. It just hurts a whole lotta people when you do this for a living. It hurts everybody who knows and loves you. Pretty sickening to do this to yourself, but also to others. I've watched shows where people in the porn industry try to date regular people, and as soon as anybody finds out this is what you do, it's, "oh, well, nice knowing ya. Toodles!" Sooooo if there's really nothing wrong with it then why does everybody react to it in this manner? Some might say it's because we're pre-conditioned to feel this way, but I think it just goes back to the beginnings of time, so it's gonna be hard to erace that from the heritage pool. It's like, "What did Grandma do for a living? She was a prostitute. Oh, that's interesting. See ya!"
    And those are your opinions, which are no more valid than my own. I personally don't have as much of a stigma about that sort of thing as you do so it honestly wouldn't bother me as much. Then again, I have friends right now who were former prostitutes and are in the porn industry who I have great respect for. It seems silly to just write them off simply because they are in a profession that I may or may not agree with. We really are a nation of prudes and it seems to be getting worse in some ways rather than better.

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