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Thread: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Again, says you. There are quite many, otherwise there wouldn't be that many pornos floating around DAILY.

    Simple fact is there is money to made in the industry.

    I will admit many fail, just like many that try to start their own business that fail. But does that mean you should tell people never to start their own business because they can fail?
    You think the girls you're watching in porno flicks are making mad money? Seriously? They get paid squat. There isn't a one of them who wouldn't trade porno for a real acting gig without hesitation.

    There's little money to be made in porno or the sex industry as a whole unless you are the supplier. There are people making money off porn but it's not the girl getting screwed.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    You think the girls you're watching in porno flicks are making mad money? Seriously? They get paid squat. There isn't a one of them who wouldn't trade porno for a real acting gig without hesitation.
    And you speak for all porn stars? LOL the only way you could is if you were one of these girls. I doubt that is you, so how can you speak for everyone?

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    There's little money to be made in porno or the sex industry as a whole unless you are the supplier. There are people making money off porn but it's not the girl getting screwed.
    Actually there is great money to be made in the industry. I'm sorry the people you know only experience might have been with the girls gone wild guy lifting their top.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 03-18-09 at 12:24 AM.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    You think the girls you're watching in porno flicks are making mad money? Seriously? They get paid squat. There isn't a one of them who wouldn't trade porno for a real acting gig without hesitation.

    There's little money to be made in porno or the sex industry as a whole unless you are the supplier. There are people making money off porn but it's not the girl getting screwed.
    The same could could be said for DISNEY INC. I know animators that worked for him and they got diddly squat.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I've pointed out where sexual human trafficking is a problem in nations where prostitution is illegal. I've also pointed out nations where it is problem where it prostitution is legal.

    It would be nice if you got off your soap box and actually proved a relationship between illegality and legality in regards to the human sex trade.
    Ok, well Amsterdam had more of a problem with human trafficking post legalization than prior to, same with Australia, etc. With even a little bit of googling on your own you'll see that it's true. Amsterdam's problems are well documented and often in the regular news. There are other nations that were considering legalization that have now backed off due to problems in Europe, Australia, Amsterdam, etc.

    Again it IS A SUPPLY/DEMAND issue. Basic economics. The only way you wouldn't see an increase in human trafficking with legalization is if you legalized it everywhere all at once. Then the supply doesn't have to be moved around to meet the demand that also moves around via tourism. If tons of men are going to Amsterdam for whores Amsterdam is going to have trouble meeting the demand side of the equation. Thus the importing of sex slaves.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Except again she doesn't always. There are many many countries dealing with human trafficking for sex slaves. This idea that you can go to Amsterdam and pay a prostitute who voluntarily prostitutes herself isn't always true. You as the customer, won't know if she's voluntarily doing it or not.
    But we're not talking about sex slaves. We're talking about legal prostitution. Legalized prostitution does not legalize human trafficing or sex slavery. The two issues maybe linked, but they are not the same. We can have legalized prostitution and crack down on human trafficing. They are not mutually exclusive actions. You have yet to tell me why both can't be done.

    I consider any exploitation of women a womens rights issue.
    So do you support legally abolishing burkas? Many folks (myself included) would consider that a gross infringement of religious rights.

    No actually whores who are independent contractors fair far better when prostitution is illegal. The "supply" is lower and not as accessible so men pay more. When made legal women are usually housed up together in lots, paid less, and forced to work in brothel type settings. Why go seek out some independent whore who works on her own when you can go pick out a woman from a group of 15 women? Or visit a street that has numerous brothels each with large lots of women in them? The folks who make out the best in those scenarios are the brothel owners. The women are forced into a more competitive atmosphere, the expectation for younger women is higher, and the women make way less money.
    Independent contractors or high class call girls may take a hit, the the Bunny Ranch does quite well with its legal but high paid hookers. However, streetwalker types would certainly get a better deal. I'm sure they'd take home more money and work in better enviroments than they do now.

    Sex should not be a "transaction." Intimacy is not business.
    Strictly a moral or personal judgment and has no place in a legal discussion.
    Last edited by Psychoclown; 03-18-09 at 12:32 AM.
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Ok, well Amsterdam had more of a problem with human trafficking post legalization than prior to, same with Australia, .
    Link Please.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Ok, well Amsterdam had more of a problem with human trafficking post legalization than prior to, same with Australia, etc. With even a little bit of googling on your own you'll see that it's true. Amsterdam's problems are well documented and often in the regular news. There are other nations that were considering legalization that have now backed off due to problems in Europe, Australia, Amsterdam, etc.

    Again it IS A SUPPLY/DEMAND issue. Basic economics. The only way you wouldn't see an increase in human trafficking with legalization is if you legalized it everywhere all at once. Then the supply doesn't have to be moved around to meet the demand that also moves around via tourism. If tons of men are going to Amsterdam for whores Amsterdam is going to have trouble meeting the demand side of the equation. Thus the importing of sex slaves.
    I do have to say this. You shown a correlation between legalizing prostition and an increase in human trafficing. You have not show causation. The two are different. It is possible there are other unaccounted for variables that allow for the strong correlation without legalized prostitution being the cause for the increase.

    I haven't studied the issue and have now idea what they could be. I'd say the two are probably linked going by my intuitive common sense if the numbers you're posting are accurate. But strictly speaking correlation does not prove causation.

    Again, I'm not saying what you are saying false. Intuititively it makes sense. But correlation is not unquestionable scientific truth.
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    I do have to say this. You shown a correlation between legalizing prostition and an increase in human trafficing. You have not show causation. The two are different. It is possible there are other unaccounted for variables that allow for the strong correlation without legalized prostitution being the cause for the increase.

    I haven't studied the issue and have now idea what they could be. I'd say the two are probably linked going by my intuitive common sense if the numbers you're posting are accurate. But strictly speaking correlation does not prove causation.

    Again, I'm not saying what you are saying false. Intuititively it makes sense. But correlation is not unquestionable scientific truth.

    OKay maybe I missed the link

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Link Please.
    "The Netherlands is an interesting example because in the last decade or so they've come full circle, from their position in 2000 to the position they're in now," she told politics.co.uk

    "They've closed half the businesses since 2006 because of an exponential rise in organised crime and money laundering and also the trafficking of children and women, particularly from countries such as the UK.

    "Once they legalised prostitution it became a Mecca for sex tourism.

    "Local women in prostitution weren't in a position to satisfy demand so a vacuum developed which the traffickers filled," she explained.

    It is, in effect, a failed experiment. Legalisation is just an endorsement for harm for people working in the sex industry."
    http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/autocodes/countries/netherlands/govt-minister-in-amsterdam-prostitution-advice-$1228315.htm

    So what about that Red Light District anyway? I have news for you, folks. It didn't work. Several years after lifting the ban on brothels, Amsterdam's Mayor Job Cohen admits that, while the law was created for voluntary prostitution, "these days we see trafficking of women, exploitation and all kinds of criminal activity."
    End Human Trafficking - Change.org: Amsterdam's Red Light District Wears Out Its Welcome

    The mayor of Amsterdam, Job Cohen, said that although prostitution was legal in the Netherlands, there was too much of the sex trade in the city centre.

    He also said that the trade involved exploitation and trafficking of women, and other kinds of criminal activity.
    BBC NEWS | Europe | Amsterdam to cut back on brothels
    Last edited by talloulou; 03-18-09 at 12:43 AM.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Even assuming she handled her finances correctly (being debt free except the mortgage, emergency fund which could support her for 6-12 month, taking a 15 year loan with 20% down, etc), assuming she couldn't take out a second mortgage on any existing equity, the most appropriate action here is to sell the home and rent until she gets back on her feet; not become a prostitute.
    Whether or not she should have supplemented her income that way is not the point. Prostitution is part of the job market and should be treated as such, and workers should have the freedom to go down that road if they so choose.

    Good for New Zealand.

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