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Thread: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

  1. #191
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    I would be sick with grief if my kid did this or pornography for a living. I had a relative who did some porno and when you even mention it it gets a really creepy feeling amongst all of us who knew this person. It's embarrassing to know he did this. It's embarrassing, but it's almost like a slap in the face to all of us in the family. It just hurts a whole lotta people when you do this for a living. It hurts everybody who knows and loves you. Pretty sickening to do this to yourself, but also to others. I've watched shows where people in the porn industry try to date regular people, and as soon as anybody finds out this is what you do, it's, "oh, well, nice knowing ya. Toodles!" Sooooo if there's really nothing wrong with it then why does everybody react to it in this manner? Some might say it's because we're pre-conditioned to feel this way, but I think it just goes back to the beginnings of time, so it's gonna be hard to erace that from the heritage pool. It's like, "What did Grandma do for a living? She was a prostitute. Oh, that's interesting. See ya!"
    It's disgusting to you, however, I have known someone that did porn and is absoultely proud of what she has done.

    She has made more money in a year than some do in 50. She has since quit and is raising her children along with a loving husband.

    The fact you and others find it a 'bad choice" is funny. Tell me do you bitch about a lawyer defending KNOWN criminals for money? Do you bitch about ambulance chasers? I doubt it.

    The fact America has a taboo against sex is funny when it embraces violent video games and hockey fights. Violence is ok but sex isn't go figure.

  2. #192
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Men no more "buy a woman" when they purchase the services of a prostitute than they do when they purchase the services of anyone else. Your incorrect notion that they do is the disturbing one.
    Are you denying that women are commonly lined up and the man picks the one he wants?

    Gimme a break. Prostitutes are not victims, as much as you'd like them to be.
    How bout you give me a break and take a look at some factual statistics on prostitution and how well women are treated in that industry?


    And you know this... how? You know prostitutes? Talk to any personally? Or you just read silly, misguided websites that tell you what you want to hear about the minority of prostitutes who happen to be streetwalkers?
    I mostly ignore women on the internet whose claim to fame is that once upon a time they were a fabulous call girl, rolling in the dough, and they loved it in favor of actual news articles, books, congressional meetings, government action reports, etc.


    Instead of rambling on why don't you tackle the issue that Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Germany, etc are having? The supply and demand issue that crops up when prostitution is legal, out in the open, celebrated, and put on tourism posters? Or is it just not your problem that legalization increases demand, which increases the likelihood of desperate women being imported to various regions as sex slaves? It's not a made up issue. Also when prostitution is legal, open, and celebrated the demand for younger girls increases which is why human trafficking commonly involves minors. That's not a made up issue either.

    If you want to instead insist on comparing being a waitress with selling your sex then there's little point in having a conversation with you.

  3. #193
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Are you denying that women are commonly lined up and the man picks the one he wants?
    In a brothel, I'm sure they are.

    They do the same with Ski Instructors.

    So, your point is... what, exactly? They still are not "buying a woman" any more than someone is "buying a man" when they pick a male instructor out of a lineup.

    How bout you give me a break and take a look at some factual statistics on prostitution and how well women are treated in that industry?
    They aren't "factual statistics". They're estimates taken from the minority segment of the prostitution trade. I know my facts firsthand.

    I mostly ignore women on the internet whose claim to fame is that once upon a time they were a fabulous call girl, rolling in the dough, and they loved it in favor of actual news articles, books, congressional meetings, government action reports, etc.
    Claim to fame? Who the **** said anything about fame? What ARE you talking about?

    Instead of rambling on why don't you tackle the issue that Australia, the Netherlands, Israel, Germany, etc are having? The supply and demand issue that crops up when prostitution is legal, out in the open, celebrated, and put on tourism posters? Or is it just not your problem that legalization increases demand, which increases the likelihood of desperate women being imported to various regions as sex slaves? It's not a made up issue. Also when prostitution is legal, open, and celebrated the demand for younger girls increases which is why human trafficking commonly involves minors. That's not a made up issue either.
    And so you deal with that issue, just as you deal with the black market trade of any service or good.

    If you want to instead insist on comparing being a waitress with selling your sex then there's little point in having a conversation with you.
    Selling "my sex"? LOL No, it's selling the service of having sex. But you are correct in that I fail to see what the distinction is between selling that service and selliing any other. And, you've yet to explain what the distinction is either. You and anyone else.

    When you're able to explain the distinction between selling one service and another (between two consenting adults) maybe then you could continue?
    Last edited by rivrrat; 03-17-09 at 11:50 PM.

  4. #194
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    Just like the woman who puts the burka on for whatever reason, the prostitute chooses to enter her profession. You can say its due to desperation or emotional scars or whatever and you may be right, but its still a choice.[
    Except again she doesn't always. There are many many countries dealing with human trafficking for sex slaves. This idea that you can go to Amsterdam and pay a prostitute who voluntarily prostitutes herself isn't always true. You as the customer, won't know if she's voluntarily doing it or not.

    You may not like the choices they make, you may find them to be reprehensible, but they have no affect on you so I don't see how you or society should have any say in the matter. This applies the burka wearing woman and the prostitute. Afterall, I assume you're not advocating we ban burkas.
    I consider any exploitation of women a womens rights issue.

    In an unregulated industry where a pimp is able to use violence to extort the prostitutes of course this happens. Independent contractors do far better and would probably be more prominent in a legalized situation.
    No actually whores who are independent contractors fair far better when prostitution is illegal. The "supply" is lower and not as accessible so men pay more. When made legal women are usually housed up together in lots, paid less, and forced to work in brothel type settings. Why go seek out some independent whore who works on her own when you can go pick out a woman from a group of 15 women? Or visit a street that has numerous brothels each with large lots of women in them? The folks who make out the best in those scenarios are the brothel owners. The women are forced into a more competitive atmosphere, the expectation for younger women is higher, and the women make way less money.



    Perhaps, and if that leads to an increase in human trafficing then we should step up our efforts to combat human trafficing. That doesn't justify abolishing a transaction between two consenting adults.
    Sex should not be a "transaction." Intimacy is not business.



    Y

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    They aren't "factual statistics". They're estimates taken from the minority segment of the prostitution trade. I know my facts firsthand.
    I don't think you do because the fabulous call gal lifestyle which you love to brag about- where half decent women make oodles of money with each transaction- is essentially over when prostitution becomes legal.

  6. #196
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I don't think you do because the fabulous call gal lifestyle which you love to brag about- where half decent women make oodles of money with each transaction- is essentially over when prostitution becomes legal.
    I've never denied that for a second. Prices drop when something is easier to obtain. Simply supply and demand.

    And?

    Oh, and it's not "bragging", it's simply stating facts. Do you consider it "bragging" when I talk about any other job I've had?

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I've never denied that for a second. Prices drop when something is easier to obtain. Simply supply and demand.

    And?

    Oh, and it's not "bragging", it's simply stating facts. Do you consider it "bragging" when I talk about any other job I've had?
    Well the issue of this thread is legalizing prostitution. Legalizing it promotes a higher demand, cheapens the worth/value, and creates a fiercely more competitive market. When men have more choice they demand youth.

    We are talking about legalizing prostitution so I fail to see why you keep bringing up elite call girls which will have no place in a legalized setting. In a place like Ohio maybe some girl who isn't even all that good looking can get a few hundred off a guy as an independent contractor. Put that same girl in Amsterdam and she won't make enough to even live off. In legalized settings the girls are kept in lots, paid less, treated worse, and well who wants that lifestyle? Very few but the most desperate. Thus the trafficking.

    So if you understand that, know that, why keep bringing up the moot issue of the fantastic call girl life????

  8. #198
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post


    They aren't "factual statistics". They're estimates taken from the minority segment of the prostitution trade. I know my facts firsthand.

    I've already shown her how legality does not matter in the human sex trade. She does not care about the reality at hand. As long as "morality" is enforced via the state everything is fine and dandy in her opinion.

  9. #199
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Men no more "buy a woman" when they purchase the services of a prostitute than they do when they purchase the services of anyone else. Your incorrect notion that they do is the disturbing one.
    Maybe that's how you feel, but ask the rest of the world, and that's not the story you'll get.

    But in a way I agree with the notion, only about waitresses. It is truly sad that women degrade themselves in such a worthless service industry that caters to the lazy, ****ed up, pathetic scum who can't even cook their own goddamn food. I mean, women fought for so long to be taken seriously, and then here are these looser women degrading themselves by actually SERVING people like common houseslaves. There's no dignity or honor in being a slave like that... selling themselves for piddly crap wages... being forced to smile and be cheery even at the most asshole customers. No woman should aim to be someone's serving wench/slave. It's disgusting that women would sell their flesh in such a way.
    Waitressing is not having sex for money. Two different things. There is a service involved, but the services are quite different.

    I quit waitressing for some reason too. Quit river guiding. Quit being a professional photographer. Quit ski patrol. Quit driving an ambulance. And quit management at Sony. All for "some reason" Astonishingly, I actually made thousands of dollars at those jobs, and was in control. I guess I must have quit because I am actually not being truthful about making money in those jobs and being in control, eh? I guess the fact that I quit a job MUST mean that I was beaten, raped, and didn't make any money.
    All the other jobs you could readily admit to, but bring up prostitution, and I would bet everybody clams up.

    Gimme a break. Prostitutes are not victims, as much as you'd like them to be.
    I've never heard anybody say that's what they want to do when they grow up.

    Kinda like illegal immigration and forced slave labor amongst that population too, eh? I wonder what we could do about that. Oh, I know!! Keep it illegal.
    Prostitution is very low-class. Doesn't matter how you dress it up, it's still low-class. It can have a beautiful package, and even be educated, but in the end it is what it is and it ain't good or necessary.

    And that is illegal, and wrong. No one is arguing it isn't. But that isn't what we're talking about.
    The thinking is the same just different age groups.

    I pity waitresses for the same reasons.
    Anyone who works can be pitied. It's tough getting up doing 9 to 5.

    I know! They were SOOOOO insensitive when they handed me wads of cash and wined and dined me. Damn those perverts! Damn them to hell!
    Yes, they were.

    You are correct in that it doesn't feel good to let a person use you. Which is why I never have let anyone use me. I've always worked for a living. And when I have sex, I never consider myself used. In fact, often it's the other way around. After all, if I'm getting paid.. I just used them to make money. If I'm not getting paid, then I just used them to get off.
    This is probably how you have come to justify what you do.

    The whole idea of a proud serving wench is mind boggling too. To each their own I guess. /shrug
    Waitresses serve food and drinks. It's entirely different to have someone who you don't even know, enjoy something that is your own personal, highly cherished self for a few dollars. Not worth it in MHO. Unfortunate when you believe it is worth it.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Well the issue of this thread is legalizing prostitution. Legalizing it promotes a higher demand,
    Prove it. The demand is already there legal or not. I doubt the demand will change very much.

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