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Thread: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

  1. #171
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Making prostitution illegal everywhere most certainly wouldn't put an end to it. However, the places where prostitution is legal are also the places where the business is biggest - even used as a tool to lure tourists in cases - and it is not a coincidence that they are the most common destinations for a sex slave to end up. The human trafficking unfortunately doesn't take voluntary sex workers from places where the business is legal and export them to where it is illegal. The exact opposite occurs. The legal places are the biggest importers and supporters of human trafficking.
    Well when you can prove it tell me. I just juxtaposed China and Israel. One country has legal prostitution the other doesn't. Both are targets on the sex human trafficking scene.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    So when you go to a brothel and the women come out and line up are you not picking out a woman? Are you not purchasing her time? As well as her body? Are you under any obligation whatsoever to find out about her life, the voluntary nature of her sex work, or even her name? Are you under any obligation to do anything? Are you not paying to use her flesh?
    Yes, and it is a voluntary choice made by 2 adults.

    Is she or isn't she under an obligation to allow herself (her body) to be selfishly used by you?
    She has chosen such a career path. She is obligated to do only what she has agreed to do.
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    Not necessarily, the brothel is nothing more than a "legal pimp", or employer if you will. Like any good business model, the object is to maximize profits.

    IMO, taking care of your employee's is a high priority and can add substantially to the overall succes of an operation in regard to meeting the objective.

    However, my view isn't shared by all in the business world. So just because you provide a legal working environment, doesn't mean you are looking after the best interest, or safety, of your employee's.
    I would say that prostitutes are safer from harm in a brothel than they are on the streets.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    So when you go to a brothel and the women come out and line up are you not picking out a woman? Are you not purchasing her time? As well as her body? Are you under any obligation whatsoever to find out about her life, the voluntary nature of her sex work, or even her name? Are you under any obligation to do anything? Are you not paying to use her flesh? Is she or isn't she under an obligation to allow herself (her body) to be selfishly used by you?
    Yes, you are purchasing her time and sex with her. You aren't purchasing her as a human being to do with whatever you want. Your argument remains emotional opinion. And it isn't as if she is being forced into that profession. Obviously she has a choice. Hell, prostitutes are nearly legal in the US as it is and they are called escorts. They pick and choose their clientele and I imagine that it would be no different if it were made legal. I just don't understand why you assume all of these horrible things would happen if it were suddenly made legal.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Well when you can prove it tell me. I just juxtaposed China and Israel. One country has legal prostitution the other doesn't. Both are targets on the sex human trafficking scene.
    I never said human trafficking does not happen in countries where prostitution is illegal.

    However there is an intrinsic relationship between legalizing prostitution and human trafficking. This has been shown in Australia, Germany, Israel, & Nevada.

    When sex becomes an open commodity, when tourism is aimed at promoting sex as a commodity, when there's tons of money to be made and little legal hassle in doing so the prostitution business grows. As it grows in certain areas the demand outpaces the product. When there are men with money who want to buy whores there will be other men who want money who will do whatever it takes to bring in more whores.

    If you don't believe that, fine. I know it to be true. There's oodles and oodles of stuff all over the net describing the problems in the Netherlands, Australia, Israel, etc.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Yes, you are purchasing her time and sex with her. You aren't purchasing her as a human being to do with whatever you want. Your argument remains emotional opinion. And it isn't as if she is being forced into that profession. Obviously she has a choice. Hell, prostitutes are nearly legal in the US as it is and they are called escorts. They pick and choose their clientele and I imagine that it would be no different if it were made legal. I just don't understand why you assume all of these horrible things would happen if it were suddenly made legal.
    Human trafficking for sex work occurs throughout the US. Nevada is the most common destination but not the only one.

    The truth is, as a man with money and an allotted time of 30 minutes give or take, and little interest or obligation to do anything besides use her flesh- you have no idea exactly how voluntary or involuntary her sex work is.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    So I am noticing that three of the four sources here claim human trafficking has increased in Las Vegas, where prostitution is illegal. Seems like there is a spurious relationship between human trafficking and legal prostitution.

    How do you then come to the conclusion that legalizing prostitution is the cause of increased human trafficking?
    Men go where they think they can buy sex. Vegas is sin city and prostitution is legal in places in Nevada. This creates a larger market in "vegas" than in other cities. You have more men in Vegas wanting to pay for sex then you might find in Dublin, Ohio. It's cause and demand relationship. Same with Amsterdam. Same with Australia. Same with anywhere men can go with an expectation that they will be able to buy sex. Eventually you have more men with money than women and you need to start importing, exploiting, and do whatever you can to keep business booming. You may not like that this relationship exists but it does.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    When there are men with money who want to buy whores there will be other men who want money who will do whatever it takes to bring in more whores.
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I never said human trafficking does not happen in countries where prostitution is illegal.

    However there is an intrinsic relationship between legalizing prostitution and human trafficking. This has been shown in Australia, Germany, Israel, & Nevada.
    China is at the top of the list for human sex trafficking where prostitution is illegal. In Las Vegas your earlier example prostitution is illegal. In Veitnam there is a prostitution problem:

    Prostitution in Vietnam is a major social issue that particularly affects women and children. Child prostitution is a problem.[1] Sex education has been limited because of Vietnamís traditional bias against the public mention of anything sexual.[2] Vietnam is not a popular destination for sex tourism for Westerners, compared to Thailand and the Philipines, since prostitution is illegal in Vietnam. In Thailand, it is a legal industry.

    Prostitution in Vietnam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    BTW Prostitution is illegal in the Philippines:

    Prostitution in the Philippines is illegal. It is a serious crime with penalties ranging up to life imprisonment for those involved in trafficking.[1] It is covered by the Anti-Trafficking in Persons Act.[2] Prostitution is sometimes illegaly available through brothels (also known as casa), bars, karaoke bars (also known as KTVs), Massage Parlors, street walkers and escort service.

    The Coalition Against Trafficking in Women - Asia Pacific (CATW-AP) [1], quoting from Kyodo News, estimated that in 1998 there were 400,000 prostituted women in the Philippines.[3][4] The International Labor Organization estimated that in 1993/94 there were nearly half a million prostitutes in the country.[5]

    Prostitution in the Philippines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    If you can prove causative results about legality please do so

  10. #180
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    I have to ask if this is your primary concern, why did you not bring it up earlier. If I recall, you brought this issue up after several posts on the morality, lack of dignity, and stigma of prostitution. If this was your primary objection to legalized prostitution, I would've thought you would've brought it up first and not wasted our time with "would you want your daughter doing this?" and other such platitudes.

    Moving on to human trafficing and prostitution, the two may be linked. I haven't read your links or checked out their authenticity, but I'll take your word for it, but they are not the same thing. Why can't we legalize prostitution and increase our enforcement efforts (with the now freed up manpower and funds from the former vice squads) to enforce laws on human trafficing? I don't see why they are mutually exclusive. We can legalize prostitution and crack down on human trafficing. Its not a either or proposition.

    And as I've said before, the fact that an industry is linked to an illegal practice isn't sufficient casue to ban that industry. Landscaping, agriculture, and food service among other industries are linked to illegal immigration. Should we ban these industries as part of the fight on illegal immigration? No. We should enforce the laws we have on the books about employing illegal immigrants along with the rest of our laws pertaining to illegal immigration.
    I'm hoping you'll reply to this talloulou. I've enjoyed our debate and I'm curious what your response is.
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