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Thread: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    No it is not. It is about making them more tasty.
    You are what you eat. There's no reason to raise even food stock in a cruel manner, being inhumane to the animal. Would you rather eat an animal that had a brutal life; that spent it's life in a constant state of stress and anguish? Or would you prefer to eat an animal that was treated humanely?

    Maybe you don't care. Some folks do.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    You are what you eat. There's no reason to raise even food stock in a cruel manner, being inhumane to the animal. Would you rather eat an animal that had a brutal life; that spent it's life in a constant state of stress and anguish? Or would you prefer to eat an animal that was treated humanely?

    Maybe you don't care. Some folks do.
    Have you ever cut the testicles off a calf? I have. Have you ever raised cattle? I have. The reasoning behind having happy steers is to have relaxed muscle tissue. Bull meat and cow meat are tough as nails.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    It's hard to find laws that have zero moral basis. Most laws have a moral starting point.
    For me its about liberty, not morality. The government's role is perserve our liberty, not be the moral authority or enforcement agency. I do believe we have inalienable rights bestowed upon us our Creator (or by virtue of our humanity for those athiests out there). That is an absolute for me. We surrender a portion of liberty (the liberty to murder, steal, rape, ect) in exchange for teh preservation and guarantee of our remaining liberties (life, the pursuit of happiness, free speech, ect.). This system works pretty good until government starts to overstep its purpose and starts to create laws that have nothing to do with perserving liberty and are all about morality.

    You say its prostitution is immoral. You'll get no argument from me there, but I ask how does it affect the liberty of the people involved? That's my concern. If two consenting adults want to do something, we should have a pretty damned good reason to say "you can't do that". I don't think saying "I think its wrong" is a sufficient reason. Because that is arbitrary and reasonable people can disagree about what is wrong and what is right. If morality is the guiding principle and not liberty, what's to stop us from making adultry illegal? You're using the same foundation as every theocratic religious crackpot nation. You're just not willing to go as far as they are.

    I'm willing to defend things that I think are wrong or immoral from legal abolishment or persecution. For example, I think Klu Klux Klan and neo Nazis are despicable people. I think what they stand for is 100% wrong, but I also don't think they should be banned legally as groups or from publicly stating their beliefs. Most people in this nation think they are evil groups. Would you support curbing their right to free speech and assembly? I wouldn't, because I'm not comfortable with a government that can determine what is acceptable speech and what isn't. Just like I'm not comfortable with a government that goes around enforcing arbitrary morals.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

  4. #154
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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Human trafficking is a separate issue from prostitution. One involves a lack of consent and the other involves consent. Human trafficking will not become legal because prostitution is legal.

    Also, the brothels serve as a means to protect prostitutes. People claim to be concerned about the woman's well-being yet they would rather it was illegal and the women were put back on the streets where they are targets? That is a serious contradiction. There is on-the-spot protection in brothels, not on the streets.

    Whether prostitution is legal or illegal, there are issues. Illegal prostitution leads to more prostitutes becoming targets for aggressive clients. Legal prostitution may lead to more human trafficking. Weighing these issues I find that it is more important to protect the women who are consenting prostitutes because it will exist whether it is legal or not.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    Legal prostitution may lead to more human trafficking. .
    Wouldn't that lead someone to suspect New Zealand where prostitution is legal would be at the top of the list for sexual human trafficking?

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychoclown View Post
    I'm willing to defend things that I think are wrong or immoral from legal abolishment or persecution. For example, I think Klu Klux Klan and neo Nazis are despicable people. I think what they stand for is 100% wrong, but I also don't think they should be banned legally as groups or from publicly stating their beliefs. Most people in this nation think they are evil groups. Would you support curbing their right to free speech and assembly? I wouldn't, because I'm not comfortable with a government that can determine what is acceptable speech and what isn't. Just like I'm not comfortable with a government that goes around enforcing arbitrary morals.
    I'm willing to do the same in regards to many things I find despicable or even just not my cup of tea. But the legalization is so intrinsically linked to human trafficking, sex slaves, and human rights violations for women and children that I cannot in good faith support it because there's the occasional whore that claims it's a great way of life. Women and children should not be commodities for men to purchase. Why do men go to prostitutes; because they can. It's really that simple. And when it's legal the demand increases. The business grows and time and time again in country after country whether it be Australia, the Netherlands, Germany, etc the end result is lots of women treated inhumanely with no liberty to speak of.

    If there was no intrinsic link between human rights violations and the legalization of prostitution I'd view it as not my cup of tea but not an issue worth worrying over. Prostitution encourages men to view women a certain way. A dollar valued disposable being to be used as as a scratching post in a selfish manner that excuses the man from any obligation or reciprocation. It is not surprising that this inevitably leads to exploitation and human rights violations. The fact that it trickles down to children just makes it that much more intolerable.

    And that's about all I have to say on the issue. My mind can't be changed.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Wouldn't that lead someone to suspect New Zealand where prostitution is legal would be at the top of the list for sexual human trafficking?
    I was going by what was cited in an earlier post. It stated human trafficking was increase with legal prostitution. I do not know if this is actually true or not, but I included it to make my point.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I'm willing to do the same in regards to many things I find despicable or even just not my cup of tea. But the legalization is so intrinsically linked to human trafficking, sex slaves, and human rights violations for women and children that I cannot in good faith support it because there's the occasional whore that claims it's a great way of life. Women and children should not be commodities for men to purchase. Why do men go to prostitutes; because they can. It's really that simple. And when it's legal the demand increases. The business grows and time and time again in country after country whether it be Australia, the Netherlands, Germany, etc the end result is lots of women treated inhumanely with no liberty to speak of.

    If there was no intrinsic link between human rights violations and the legalization of prostitution I'd view it as not my cup of tea but not an issue worth worrying over. Prostitution encourages men to view women a certain way. A dollar valued disposable being to be used as as a scratching post in a selfish manner that excuses the man from any obligation or reciprocation. It is not surprising that this inevitably leads to exploitation and human rights violations. The fact that it trickles down to children just makes it that much more intolerable.

    And that's about all I have to say on the issue. My mind can't be changed.

    Do you think prostitution is legal in these countries?

    In Russia, many women have been trafficked overseas for the purpose of sexual exploitation, Russian women are in prostitution in over 50 countries.[34][35] Annually, thousands of Russian women end up as prostitutes in Israel, China, Japan or South Korea.[36

    Human trafficking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Legality of prostitution I do not think is a causation of sex related human trafficking.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I'm willing to do the same in regards to many things I find despicable or even just not my cup of tea. But the legalization is so intrinsically linked to human trafficking, sex slaves, and human rights violations for women and children that I cannot in good faith support it because there's the occasional whore that claims it's a great way of life. Women and children should not be commodities for men to purchase. Why do men go to prostitutes; because they can. It's really that simple. And when it's legal the demand increases. The business grows and time and time again in country after country whether it be Australia, the Netherlands, Germany, etc the end result is lots of women treated inhumanely with no liberty to speak of.

    If there was no intrinsic link between human rights violations and the legalization of prostitution I'd view it as not my cup of tea but not an issue worth worrying over. Prostitution encourages men to view women a certain way. A dollar valued disposable being to be used as as a scratching post in a selfish manner that excuses the man from any obligation or reciprocation. It is not surprising that this inevitably leads to exploitation and human rights violations. The fact that it trickles down to children just makes it that much more intolerable.

    And that's about all I have to say on the issue. My mind can't be changed.
    I have to ask if this is your primary concern, why did you not bring it up earlier. If I recall, you brought this issue up after several posts on the morality, lack of dignity, and stigma of prostitution. If this was your primary objection to legalized prostitution, I would've thought you would've brought it up first and not wasted our time with "would you want your daughter doing this?" and other such platitudes.

    Moving on to human trafficing and prostitution, the two may be linked. I haven't read your links or checked out their authenticity, but I'll take your word for it, but they are not the same thing. Why can't we legalize prostitution and increase our enforcement efforts (with the now freed up manpower and funds from the former vice squads) to enforce laws on human trafficing? I don't see why they are mutually exclusive. We can legalize prostitution and crack down on human trafficing. Its not a either or proposition.

    And as I've said before, the fact that an industry is linked to an illegal practice isn't sufficient casue to ban that industry. Landscaping, agriculture, and food service among other industries are linked to illegal immigration. Should we ban these industries as part of the fight on illegal immigration? No. We should enforce the laws we have on the books about employing illegal immigrants along with the rest of our laws pertaining to illegal immigration.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

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    Re: Selling sex legally in New Zealand

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    My person is not for sale. No woman should be for sale. Not even for a short period of time and a boatload of money. Lying down with a man for a dollar is like going to church for the wine.
    This is your emotional opinion.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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