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The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for

Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

Goobieman said:
Only if you redefine the term away from its meaning in its common context.
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Not really, Captain is right, it is socialized medicine by its very definition. Medical care provided to the soldier that the soldier does not pay for directly, but that is provided by taxes from the public and controlled by the government.

But then again, what is wrong with having socialized medicine for our troops?
 
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Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

TheNextEra said:
Not really, Captain is right, it is socialized medicine.

But then again, what is wrong with having socialized medicine for our troops?
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I don't get this at all...it's not socialized medicine because it is not available to the entire society. It is a compensation for serving in the military. No one is getting it for nothing.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

jallman said:
I don't get this at all...it's not socialized medicine because it is not available to the entire society. It is a compensation for serving in the military. No one is getting it for nothing.
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Every time I left a job the insurance did not follow me around for life nor did the tax payers pay for it in the first place.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

jallman said:
I don't get this at all...it's not socialized medicine because it is not available to the entire society. It is a compensation for serving in the military. No one is getting it for nothing.
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Again, unless you can show me a different definition you are wrong.

Definition of Socialized medicine

Socialized medicine: A system of health care in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the US Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. And the Veterans and US military hospitals are also supported this way. Examples also exist in Great Britain and Spain.
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Socialized medicine definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms

And I have no problem with this service for the troops. I happen to use it from time to time.
 
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Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

winston53660 said:
Every time I left a job the insurance did not follow me around for life nor did the tax payers pay for it in the first place.
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Well you weren't working for the government either, were you? And you weren't serving in a capacity that could get you killed either, were you?

I'm just saying that it is compensation, not a free ride. It is the compensation agreed upon before entering the military and it isn't available unless you fulfill certain obligations.

Ask someone who gets a dishonorable discharge if those benefits follow them afterward...
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

TheNextEra said:
Again, unless you can show me a different definition you are wrong.




Socialized medicine definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms

And I have no problem with this service for the troops. I happen to use it from time to time.
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I am nto disagreeing that it is run like socialized medicine. I just think certain people in this thread were acting as if the benefit wasn't earned instead of just given as a freebie, as in the case of the socialized medicine of europe and canada.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

jallman said:
I am nto disagreeing that it is run like socialized medicine. I just think certain people in this thread were acting as if the benefit wasn't earned instead of just given as a freebie, as in the case of the socialized medicine of europe and canada.
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I'm not saying it isn't earned, but it is socialized.

Not everything socialized is wrong or bad. That is my point. Some conservatives and Republicans on this board have used the term socialized as an insult. It isn't and we do it in many cases.

We do not live in a 100% Democratic, Republic, or Socialized country, but we do have programs and ways of government operation that have a little bit of everything.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

TheNextEra said:
I'm not saying it isn't earned, but it is socialized.

Not everything socialized is wrong or bad. That is my point. Some conservatives and Republicans on this board have used the term socialized as an insult. It isn't and we do it in many cases.

We do not live in a 100% Democratic, Republic, or Socialized country, but we do have programs and ways of government operation that have a little bit of everything.
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All that is very true. Just to be clear, this time it wasn't you I was going after with that comment. ;)
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

Orius said:
If the legislations is on a go-forward basis, and does not include those already enlisted (and thus legally binded to what the original contract said they'd be entitled to), then I see no foul play. If you volunteer for the military, you are volunteering to potentially die. You know the risks.

Practically all of the recent American wars have been offensive and not defensive. The soldiers aren't protecting anything that justifies dishing out billions to their health care. Also, how many people enlist in the military just to get those benefits? The same goes for their education.

The military shouldn't be a free ride when everyone else has to pay out of pocket. And frankly, in these economic times, the military should not get half a trillion dollars in budget per year. I applaud Obama for seeking cut backs.
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It's clear from your post that you just don't get it. Free ride indeed.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

TheNextEra said:
Again, unless you can show me a different definition you are wrong.

Socialized medicine definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms easily defined on MedTerms
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Your own link proves you wrong.

Socialized medicine: A system of health care in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the US Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. And the Veterans and US military hospitals are also supported this way. Examples also exist in Great Britain and Spain.

My dad is a vet, none of his doctors work for the government, they're all private doctors.

He's covered under Tricare. Back in the day it was called CHAMPUS which is an acronym for: Civilian Health And Medical Program of the Uniformed Services

It's not socialized medicine. It's a contractual obligation.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

GottaHurt said:
Your own link proves you wrong.

Socialized medicine: A system of health care in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the US Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. And the Veterans and US military hospitals are also supported this way. Examples also exist in Great Britain and Spain.

My dad is a vet, none of his doctors work for the government, they're all private doctors.

He's covered under Tricare. Back in the day it was called CHAMPUS which is an acronym for: Civilian Health And Medical Program of the Uniformed Services

It's not socialized medicine. It's a contractual obligation.
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Perzackly!
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

GottaHurt said:
Your own link proves you wrong.

My dad is a vet, none of his doctors work for the government, they're all private doctors.

He's covered under Tricare. Back in the day it was called CHAMPUS which is an acronym for: Civilian Health And Medical Program of the Uniformed Services

It's not socialized medicine. It's a contractual obligation.
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If you go into the VA, you are using socialized Medicine.

Tricare is not the VA that is true, but Tricare is not the ONLY care he can get. As a veteran he can use the VA. Therefore it is SOCIALIZED medicine.

My link only proves me right, the fact you father can use other health care, only proves there is a choice. Not that the VA is not socialized medicine.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

TheNextEra said:
If you go into the VA, you are using socialized Medicine.

Tricare is not the VA that is true, but Tricare is not the ONLY care he can get. As a veteran he can use the VA. Therefore it is SOCIALIZED medicine.

My link only proves me right, the fact you father can use other health care, only proves there is a choice. Not that the VA is not socialized medicine.
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Again, your own link proves you wrong:

Socialized medicine: A system of health care in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government.

It boils down to reading comprehension, and you're not comprehending it.

See the words system & all? Tricare is part of the system, in which not all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals work for the government and draw salaries from the government.

Now see the word not?

The link you provided proves you wrong with it's definition.

One more time, it's a contractual obligation, not socialized medicine.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

GottaHurt said:
Again, your own link proves you wrong:

Socialized medicine: A system of health care in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government.

It boils down to reading comprehension, and you're not comprehending it.

See the words system & all? Tricare is part of the system, in which not all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals work for the government and draw salaries from the government.

Now see the word not?

The link you provided proves you wrong with it's definition.

One more time, it's a contractual obligation, not socialized medicine.
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ALL refers to ALL ex-military personnel which the VA falls under. try again.

ALL EX-Military personnel can use the VA system.
 
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Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

jallman said:
You do realize that this is because they are considered the "property" of the United States government, right? That they have their rights severely restricted during the course of their service and that the government is responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of its property.
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It can be spun any which way... you still volunteer to become property, no one is forcing you. You make the choice to sign the contract. But I understand that many would want to volunteer because they are impoverished, want to go to college, or want free health care. In peace time this is a dream come true for many people.

Bottom line, it is still taxpayer money funding a soldier's healthcare. I don't agree with this given that the rest of taxpayers do not get this option.

jallman said:
Since the government pays for oil changes and maintenance on its motor fleet, do you think it should pay for yours, too? Tell you what...when you start reporting for duty, gun in hand, ready to die for your country then you can bitch about the military being taken care of medically. When you let the government tell you where you can live, for how long, and when you can come and go when you get there, then you bitch about the benefits of the military.
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My issue actually isn't soldiers getting benefits. I have family members in the Canadian armed forces and they receive benefits. I don't mind, but that's because in Canada health care is universal. If I were American, I would care that taxpayer dollars pay for the military to get everything taken care of for free, yet 40 million Americans, who presumably pay taxes, don't get the same entitlements. It's a two-tier system.

jallman said:
Well if you don't like this society, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. If the society is that ill, perhaps you would be safest quarantining yourself to, say, Iran.
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Cute, but not succinct. I don't live in the U.S., nor would I want to given the lack of health care options.

Moving to Iran isn't necessary. Canada has all the health care I need and it will stay that way, kthnx!

:2wave:
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

TheNextEra said:
ALL refers to ALL ex-military personnel which the VA falls under. try again.

ALL EX-Military personnel can use the VA system.
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AGAIN, by the definition supplied by your own link.

Anyone who receives care at a military or VA hospital can’t avoid noticing that there are plenty of folks working in those facilities who are not government employees

Independent Contractors working in Military and VA Hospitals | Military Medical Malpractice Blog

You really should do a little research before blurting out your nonsense about socialized medicine and the VA.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

Orius said:
It can be spun any which way... you still volunteer to become property, no one is forcing you. You make the choice to sign the contract. But I understand that many would want to volunteer because they are impoverished, want to go to college, or want free health care. In peace time this is a dream come true for many people.

Bottom line, it is still taxpayer money funding a soldier's healthcare. I don't agree with this given that the rest of taxpayers do not get this option.
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What? :confused:

Everyone has the option of joining the military. It's not like the government willy nilly hands out medical benefits to some and not others. They give benefits to those who give service...just like any job. Your point is not a valid one.

My issue actually isn't soldiers getting benefits. I have family members in the Canadian armed forces and they receive benefits. I don't mind, but that's because in Canada health care is universal. If I were American, I would care that taxpayer dollars pay for the military to get everything taken care of for free, yet 40 million Americans, who presumably pay taxes, don't get the same entitlements. It's a two-tier system.
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You are flat wrong. It's not an entitlement. It is a compensation.

Cute, but not succinct. I don't live in the U.S., nor would I want to given the lack of health care options.

Moving to Iran isn't necessary. Canada has all the health care I need and it will stay that way, kthnx!

:2wave:
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Let me know how that goes for you when you are waiting weeks to see a specialist should you ever need to do so. ;)
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

TheNextEra said:
ALL refers to ALL ex-military personnel which the VA falls under. try again.

ALL EX-Military personnel can use the VA system.
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No, that's not what "all" is being refered to as in your link.

You have serious reading comprehension problems :lamo
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

GottaHurt said:
AGAIN, by the definition supplied by your own link.

Anyone who receives care at a military or VA hospital can’t avoid noticing that there are plenty of folks working in those facilities who are not government employees

Independent Contractors working in Military and VA Hospitals | Military Medical Malpractice Blog

You really should do a little research before blurting out your nonsense about socialized medicine and the VA.
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The contractors are PAID by the U.S. GOVERNMENT. Hence SOCIALIZED. Maybe you should pay attention. The GOVERNMENT pays for them.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

jallman said:
What? :confused:

Everyone has the option of joining the military. It's not like the government willy nilly hands out medical benefits to some and not others. They give benefits to those who give service...just like any job. Your point is not a valid one.
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And who pays the premiums on those benefits? The government. And where does the government get the money? The tax payers. It's not just like any other employer who gives private benefits. These are publically funded benefits that only soldiers have access to.

jallman said:
You are flat wrong. It's not an entitlement. It is a compensation.
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A compensation paid for by everyone but only allocated to a select few. Sounds like socialism to me.

jallman said:
Let me know how that goes for you when you are waiting weeks to see a specialist should you ever need to do so. ;)
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I have no such obstacle.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

TheNextEra said:
The contractors are PAID by the U.S. GOVERNMENT. Hence SOCIALIZED. Maybe you should pay attention. The GOVERNMENT pays for them.
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If you'd actually read:

That clinic was operated by the Navy but staffed by civilian doctors and nurses provided by a private company.

They are not employed by the government, they receive their checks from a private company, who has the contract.

You love that square peg. :doh
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

GottaHurt said:
If you'd actually read:

That clinic was operated by the Navy but staffed by civilian doctors and nurses provided by a private company.

They are not employed by the government, they receive their checks from a private company, who has the contract.

You love that square peg. :doh
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The private companies are PAID BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. There is no getting around that part. SOCIALIZED. PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT.

Do you not understand this? Tax payers money as in socialized is paying for their treatment. SOCIALIZED.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

Orius said:
And who pays the premiums on those benefits? The government. And where does the government get the money? The tax payers. It's not just like any other employer who gives private benefits. These are publically funded benefits that only soldiers have access to.
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And everyone has access to join a branch of the military so, no, it's still a compensation and not an entitlement.

A compensation paid for by everyone but only allocated to a select few. Sounds like socialism to me.
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In return for their service. So, no, still not an entitlement.

I have no such obstacle.
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Yeah...I'm gonna have to go ahead and call bull**** on that one. The waiting periods to receive care in Canada are notorious.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

jallman said:
And everyone has access to join a branch of the military so, no, it's still a compensation and not an entitlement.
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I disagree here, not everyone that wants to serve can. Whether because of their past and/or physical abilities.

Not everyone has access to join.
 
Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

TheNextEra said:
The private companies are PAID BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. There is no getting around that part. SOCIALIZED. PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT.

Do you not understand this? Tax payers money as in socialized is paying for their treatment. SOCIALIZED.
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Socialized medicine: A system of health care in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the US Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. And the Veterans and US military hospitals are also supported this way. Examples also exist in Great Britain and Spain.

They are not drawing salaries from the government, they work for a private company who pays them. Big difference.
 
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