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Thread: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for

  1. #161
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    What I said to Goobieman about further replies from me goes double for you.
    This is usually what happens when someone knows he is wrong.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    If you truly believe that all your post mentioned was that UHC is an idea of the left, then there is nothing to discuss, as I agree.



    That's twisting my words. Why don't you try addressing my reply to CC? I summarized my viewpoint therein. Until you attempt to form some kind of tangible argument, you have no business demanding replies from me.

    What I said to Goobieman about further replies from me goes double for you.



    I already responded to Jallman directly. Don't use his own arguments to back up your lack of one.
    I'm not "demanding" anything. You look like an ass when you just keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Yeah, socialized anything is okay if you're willing to give up your liberty, become dependent on government, deal with layers of complex bureaucracy, and get ****ty service. The left will never grasp the inextricable link between economic freedom and social freedom, will they?
    My post had very little to do with the fact that UHC is a leftist doctrine. I'm more concerned about the curtailment of liberty that happens when you are beholden to the government. Do you really want the US to be like England where they're considering taxing people based on their Body Mass Index? Do you really want to subsidize health-based propaganda? Don't you understand that when you are dependent on the government (especially for absolutely vital items like say... your HEALTH) they will automatically seek to control your behavior?

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    My post had very little to do with the fact that UHC is a leftist doctrine. I'm more concerned about the curtailment of liberty that happens when you are beholden to the government.
    I sympathize with this line of thought, but to be honest I don't wish to go down the road of having a UHC debate in this thread. The only point I wish to maintain is that if socialized health care can exist in one sector of society, then it could just as easily exist in all; and yet, we feel because the military are protecting us, that they should somehow be more deserving.

    Who decides?

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Do you really want the US to be like England where they're considering taxing people based on their Body Mass Index? Do you really want to subsidize health-based propaganda?
    What is true of England does not have to be true of anywhere else. You can compare all of the developed nations that have UHC, and they all tackle the issue differently. Even comparing England with Canada, our UHC systems are not the same. Canada has not considered taxing people based on their BMI, or their personal choices in life. Everyone is taxed according to the standard taxation scales, and all their healthcare contributions go into the same pot.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Don't you understand that when you are dependent on the government (especially for absolutely vital items like say... your HEALTH) they will automatically seek to control your behavior?
    I'm not sure I follow. Why does UHC equal the government controlling your behaviour? It is not the government paying for your health care, it is you via your own tax dollars. The government is not entitled to control you just because they pay out what they owe you.
    Last edited by Orion; 03-18-09 at 12:01 PM.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I sympathize with this line of thought, but to be honest I don't wish to go down the road of having a UHC debate in this thread. The only point I wish to maintain is that if socialized health care can exist in one sector of society, then it could just as easily exist in all; and yet, we feel because the military are protecting us, that they should somehow be more deserving.

    Who decides?
    The Founders. Deal with it.

    What is true of England does not have to be true of anywhere else. You can compare all of the developed nations that have UHC, and they all tackle the issue differently. Even comparing England with Canada, our UHC systems are not the same. Canada has not considered taxing people based on their BMI, or their personal choices in life. Everyone is taxed according to the standard taxation scales, and all their healthcare contributions go into the same pot.

    I'm not sure I follow. Why does UHC equal the government controlling your behaviour? It is not the government paying for your health care, it is you via your own tax dollars. The government is not entitled to control you just because they pay out what they owe you.
    1) That's bs. You should already know that the top 50% of the country already pays almost 100% of the taxes.

    2) You should be able to extrapolate from what's going on at AIG. As soon as your will is subjugated to that of the collective, the collective is going to naturally seek to eliminate what they perceive to be an "inefficient" allocation of the collective's funds.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I sympathize with this line of thought, but to be honest I don't wish to go down the road of having a UHC debate in this thread. The only point I wish to maintain is that if socialized health care can exist in one sector of society, then it could just as easily exist in all; and yet, we feel because the military are protecting us, that they should somehow be more deserving.

    Who decides?
    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    The Founders. Deal with it.
    Can you elaborate on your answer? How did "The Founders" make this decision?

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    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Can you elaborate on your answer? How did "The Founders" make this decision?
    I'm afraid that question is too broad to cover. Research the Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution as well as the theoretical framework (Federalist Papers etc.) if you want an answer.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    I'm afraid that question is too broad to cover. Research the Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution as well as the theoretical framework (Federalist Papers etc.) if you want an answer.
    Oh brother. In other words, aps, I can't answer the question. Orius asked a question. You answered it in two words, but you then cannot support your answer with evidence. Okay.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    This is usually what happens when someone knows he is wrong.
    No, this is almost always what happens when someone has had enough of dealing with you. It happens to almost everyone who deals with you eventually.

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    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    No, this is almost always what happens when someone has had enough of dealing with you. It happens to almost everyone who deals with you eventually.
    Yes, they do tend to run away when they know they have been beaten.
    You're no exception.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 03-18-09 at 01:00 PM.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    Oh brother. In other words, aps, I can't answer the question. Orius asked a question. You answered it in two words, but you then cannot support your answer with evidence. Okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by US Constitution

    Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

    To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

    To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

    To establish post offices and post roads;

    To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

    To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

    To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

    To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

    To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

    To provide and maintain a navy;

    To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

    To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

    To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
    Tell me where you see "to provide Universal Health Care."

    To understand how the Constitution relates to the doctrines of the founders, you're going to need to study a lot more.
    Last edited by BulletWounD; 03-18-09 at 01:00 PM.

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