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  1. #141
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Here's the thing Reverend. Conservatives tend to be more supportive of the military. I think a comment you made certainly alludes to this: "Careful what you wish for. My bet is that most leftists who crave socialized medicine wouldn't be willing to live in a society such as the military." If one were to scour DP, I'm certain we could find plenty of "conservatives" stating that liberals do not support/hate the military. And hell, I'm sure we could find some "liberals" that do. Conservatives tend to be more supportive of defense spending and of the military. So, my purpose for this was to weed out those who can see the reality of what I have discussed, and not take a purely hypocritical partisan stance on the issue. Why would someone support socialized medicine over a conservative issue, but not a liberal one?

    So what did we discover. When confronted, some folks, including you, presented non-hypocritical positions. You recognize that military health care is socialized. You support it, not because it is a conservative issue, but because our military deserves this benefit. My accusation no longer applies to you, and I retract...to you. But look at the thread. We still have some who don't share your position. My accusation still applies to them. They are still being hypocritical.


    Thank you for the clarification. I still believe though your initial statement was out of character for you and rather hyper-partisan.

    Anyway, i do see the military as a socialized society, it has to be for readiness.
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  2. #142
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    I'm going to point something out that I doubt many people know. A veteran can be service connected for disabilities they would have incurred regardless of having been in the service. For example, if a woman gets a hysterectomy in service, she will be awarded service connection and will automatically receive a 50% rating (which is about $700/month tax free) even if she has no symptoms whatsoever from the removal of her uterus and the removal of the uterus had nothing to do with the performance of her duties. She will receive this money for the rest of her life.

  3. #143
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by aps View Post
    I'm going to point something out that I doubt many people know. A veteran can be service connected for disabilities they would have incurred regardless of having been in the service. For example, if a woman gets a hysterectomy in service, she will be awarded service connection and will automatically receive a 50% rating (which is about $700/month tax free) even if she has no symptoms whatsoever from the removal of her uterus and the removal of the uterus had nothing to do with the performance of her duties. She will receive this money for the rest of her life.
    I don't think that's money she receives. When you get a disability ranking that is just a percentage of your retirement pay that is tax-free. I'm not sure if that's what you were saying or not. Just wanted to clarify.
    Last edited by Dix; 03-18-09 at 09:09 AM.

  4. #144
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    If the legislations is on a go-forward basis, and does not include those already enlisted (and thus legally binded to what the original contract said they'd be entitled to), then I see no foul play. If you volunteer for the military, you are volunteering to potentially die. You know the risks.

    Practically all of the recent American wars have been offensive and not defensive. The soldiers aren't protecting anything that justifies dishing out billions to their health care. Also, how many people enlist in the military just to get those benefits? The same goes for their education.

    The military shouldn't be a free ride when everyone else has to pay out of pocket. And frankly, in these economic times, the military should not get half a trillion dollars in budget per year. I applaud Obama for seeking cut backs.
    If you said what you just said to my face I am afraid I would not be able to contain myself. After you regained consciousness Id knock you back out again.
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  5. #145
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    If you said what you just said to my face I am afraid I would not be able to contain myself. After you regained consciousness Id knock you back out again.
    Really mature.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dix View Post
    I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that soldiers are providing a service for the gov't and are given benefits in return from the gov't. In that respect their health care resembles socialized medicine. And they do run into some of the problems that countries with socialized medicine face. But, and this is the important part, it is NOT the same as providing health care for all through major taxation. It's not a double standard because you haven't provided a service for the gov't that you haven't been compensated for! Seriously, socialized med for the US population in general is a separate topic. It has nothing to do with what Obama is trying to do to disabled vets. You keep paying lip service that that but then griping about how you haven't been given anything but you don't say what it is you are supposed to be getting something in return for? It is the duty of ALL Americans to provide for the common defense. That is what your tax money is going for. Health care is part of that. If you want to get rid of that because you don't think it is "fair" your taxes will probably stay the same, or more likely increase, because soldiers pay rates will have to go way up to cover their health insurance costs. Retention is an issue for our common defense, you know.
    The first part makes sense and is a tangible argument that I can understand. Basically anyone who works for the government gets benefits, military or otherwise, so tax payer dollars cover the premiums. On these grounds, it makes sense that the military would get benefits, although I think the military gets even more than the average government worker. They also get post-service benefits that last a life time... no government worker gets that, unless maybe they got a nice retirement package as part of their contract.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And guess what? I agree with the Reverend on this. If you serve your country's military, IMO, you deserve perks and rewards for doing a job, often a dangerous job, that many others of us would not do. One reason I have the utmost respect for the military and any one who serves or served is that I know I would not want to do that job. It's a tough job and if someone can spend their time protecting me, least I can do is support them. If I don't then I need to shut up, and put on a uniform myself.
    If you notice, I am not against soldier's receiving benefits... I have said I can agree with it. People view my comments as controversial because they think my core message is that the military should not get benefits at all.

    My argument is two-fold...

    One, I am pointing out the obvious hypocrisy innate to the anti-UHC arguments created by Conservatives. Whether or not I agree with the military getting said benefits is not the issue, but rather it is clearly okay for socialized health care to exist in some instances. It's just a matter of who we think is more deserving, and that is subjective no matter what way you slice it. I just happen to fall on the side that thinks giving it to the military is okay.

    Secondly, because I come from a nation that supports UHC, I think it is double standard to give it to the military but not to civilians who are in turn paying for military health care anyway. Clearly there is a system of standarized care that can exist in a financially abundant sector of the U.S. (the military), so why is it so unfathomable and controversial to expand this system to everyone else? Like I said, I understand giving it to the military and they should receive it, but on those grounds, so should everyone else.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    If you said what you just said to my face I am afraid I would not be able to contain myself. After you regained consciousness Id knock you back out again.
    Thanks for the laugh!

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    One, I am pointing out the obvious hypocrisy innate to the anti-UHC arguments created by Conservatives. Whether or not I agree with the military getting said benefits is not the issue, but rather it is clearly okay for socialized health care to exist in some instances.
    What you (and others) continue to fail to see (or refuse to admit) is that health care for soldiers (or any other government employee) is NOT 'socialized medicine'. Its a benefit paid to employees by their employers as part of their job, rather than an entitlement owed to the citizenry in general, created by legislation.

    And so, there is no 'conservative hypocricy' on this matter.

  10. #150
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Also, how many people enlist in the military just to get those benefits? The same goes for their education.
    People in all walks of life join companies and/or the government to receive both education and healthcare.

    The case for the military offering this has been well made.
    The military shouldn't be a free ride when everyone else has to pay out of pocket. And frankly, in these economic times, the military should not get half a trillion dollars in budget per year. I applaud Obama for seeking cut backs.
    Spoken like a true Post 70's Lib.

    These folks and those that came before them fought to preserve your freedoms and way of life.

    The weapons systems and readiness are the cost of being free.

    Military spending should be increased.
    The Clintons claimed we could fight a two-front war.
    We learned The Clintons left the military underfunded.

    When we went to war the Libs SCREAMED we were over-extended.
    They weren't called on the carpet to defend their handling of the military.
    No, that was Bush's doing... he should have vehicles up-armored.
    Had more body armor for the troops.
    Should have had a bigger military.

    For what the Screaming Meme's were screaming about, their own failure to pass on a 100% prepared military, we need to spend more and increase the size of the military.

    There is Constitutional grounds for the military.
    It's a large portion of what The Founders believed our taxes were for.
    Self preservation. Military and its related services.

    There are no Constitutional grounds for all the social spending/social engineering.
    And there are hundreds of billions that could and should be slashed.
    But Obama during the campaign could not name one program he would cut.
    Not one.
    And he hasn't.

    By comparison, his expansion of government would Marlon Brando look like a microscopic spec of dust.
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-18-09 at 10:57 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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