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  1. #131
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    I am nto disagreeing that it is run like socialized medicine. I just think certain people in this thread were acting as if the benefit wasn't earned instead of just given as a freebie, as in the case of the socialized medicine of europe and canada.
    Jallman gets it. That's because he can see shades of gray.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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  2. #132
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    You are just as partisan as some of our more noisy leftist, you just couch your words better and claim you are not.

    You are making a political score point by trying to say that military healthcare is "socialized" medicine and that conservatives are hypocrites by picking and choosing the socialized medicine that they support.

    This is a disingenuous argument, but common for your posts. The country has to take care of those it sends in harms way. That's not socialized anything, that's honoring the debt owed those that serve.

    Thus your entire "point" is negated before you can make it.
    In bold. Classic hypocritical dodge. It's not socialized because it's honoring people who served.

    I think I'm done here. That wasn't difficult at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #133
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Based on the backlash from the service organizations and the statements from the Chairman of the Committee on Veterans Affairs, a plan like this would never pass muster. So it's dead.

    However, I feel better about this suggestion now that I have a better understanding of how this works.

    If a veteran goes to a private hospital for treatment and he/she has insurance, the private hospital bills the insurance company (even if the condition is a service-connected one).

    If a non-service-connected veteran seeks treatment at VA and has insurance, VA bills the veteran's insurance company.

    This proposal just expands when VA shall seek reimbursement from the insurance company. If the insurance company pays private hospitals, why not pay VA?

    I definitely don't support this idea, but it makes more sense to me now.

  4. #134
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It's always good to see some of our "conservative" contingent come out in such a unified front. It's also nice to see these folks get it wrong, as usual. Health care for veterans IS socialized health care, regardless of whether it is appropriate or not...and as I have said, our veterans, because of their military service, deserve these benefits. But of course, because of y'all's partisan blinders, y'all will divert, dodge, and skirt around the hypocrisy of your position. Now this could all be solved if your minds were a bit more flexible, and you recognized that in some situations, like heath care for veterans, socialized medical care is appropriate. Of course, that would be asking a bit much of y'all.

    Now, supporting socialized health care for veterans does not mean one must support socialized health care for the rest of us. That is the beauty of not being hyperpartisan. Flexible thinking, the abililty to see shades of gray of issues, and the ability to recognize that different circumstances require different actions.

    Now, say it with me: Health care for veterans IS socialized health care. And that's OK. And that doesn't mean others should have socialized health care. But it is hypocritical to rail against socialized health care, just because it's socialized...when veterans receive this benefit. Try to open your minds a bit and understand that it is possible that something good for one situation might not be good for another...and vice versa.

    Your welcome. Any time I can assist in your understanding of the issue, I'll be happy to.



    1. Never said it wasn't "socialized medicine", What you did see, is build a mighty strawman by attacking conservatives with a hyper-partisan statement calling any as you put it "conservative" (in quotes) "hypocrites".


    Why in quotes? btw? anyway, you continue attacking this strawman by claiming we are being hypocritical for stating that we support vet's benefits which is a rather superficial view of reality.

    2. The Military by necessity is a communal society, where most everything is provided for you. We all accept this. It does not make us hypocrites, it makes us realists.


    3. Careful what you wish for. My bet is that most leftists who crave socialized medicine wouldn't be willing to live in a society such as the military.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  5. #135
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    ALL refers to ALL ex-military personnel which the VA falls under. try again.

    ALL EX-Military personnel can use the VA system
    .




    You sure about that?



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  6. #136
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    It can be spun any which way... you still volunteer to become property, no one is forcing you. You make the choice to sign the contract. But I understand that many would want to volunteer because they are impoverished, want to go to college, or want free health care. In peace time this is a dream come true for many people.

    The rich and middleclass are overrepresented in the armed forces, the poor are less represented.

    Bottom line, it is still taxpayer money funding a soldier's healthcare. I don't agree with this given that the rest of taxpayers do not get this option.

    So its you who is demanding a "free ride", not the troops.
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  7. #137
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    1. Never said it wasn't "socialized medicine", What you did see, is build a mighty strawman by attacking conservatives with a hyper-partisan statement calling any as you put it "conservative" (in quotes) "hypocrites".


    Why in quotes? btw? anyway, you continue attacking this strawman by claiming we are being hypocritical for stating that we support vet's benefits which is a rather superficial view of reality.
    I placed the word conservatives in quotes to denote some of our more "rabid" conservatives. And yes, rabid is also in quotes. These are folks who have difficulty seeing things without partisan blinders. I wanted to differentiate them from conservatives who can see shades of gray. There are quite a few of them on this site.

    2. The Military by necessity is a communal society, where most everything is provided for you. We all accept this. It does not make us hypocrites, it makes us realists.
    Good to hear you say this. It is hypocritical to deny that medical care for veterans is socialized health care. Some "conservatives" do this because of their opposition to socialized health care, so they deny reality to stick to their partisan position. This is hypocrisy, and what I pointed out.


    3. Careful what you wish for. My bet is that most leftists who crave socialized medicine wouldn't be willing to live in a society such as the military.
    Firstly, I am not in favor of socialized medicine, or at least a total UHC. And I would agree that many lefties would be unwilling to live in a military like, communal society. And those "liberals" (note the quotes) that would support UHC, and at the same time refuse to look at military health care as an example, are also hypocrites.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #138
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    Bottom line, it is still taxpayer money funding a soldier's healthcare. I don't agree with this given that the rest of taxpayers do not get this option.
    And guess what? I agree with the Reverend on this. If you serve your country's military, IMO, you deserve perks and rewards for doing a job, often a dangerous job, that many others of us would not do. One reason I have the utmost respect for the military and any one who serves or served is that I know I would not want to do that job. It's a tough job and if someone can spend their time protecting me, least I can do is support them. If I don't then I need to shut up, and put on a uniform myself.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #139
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I placed the word conservatives in quotes to denote some of our more "rabid" conservatives. And yes, rabid is also in quotes. These are folks who have difficulty seeing things without partisan blinders. I wanted to differentiate them from conservatives who can see shades of gray. There are quite a few of them on this site.

    hmmm. you quoted me as one of them evil "conservatives". I think I have shown that indeed you were making a hyper-partisan strawman and attacking a position I never made.


    Good to hear you say this. It is hypocritical to deny that medical care for veterans is socialized health care. Some "conservatives" do this because of their opposition to socialized health care, so they deny reality to stick to their partisan position. This is hypocrisy, and what I pointed out.


    incorrect. Please re-read you hyper-partisan statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I commented about this on another thread a few days ago. Since many in the military are conservative, I suppose socialized medicine is OK only if it takes care of conservatives. There's a word for that...

    hypocrite


    a rather black and white hyper-partisan statement. pure hackery. You called me a hypocrite, I served, I am a vet, I have va benefits, I support all troops getting va healthcare, not just conservatives. it is a contractual benefit. and your statement imo bordered "baiting".....



    Firstly, I am not in favor of socialized medicine, or at least a total UHC. And I would agree that many lefties would be unwilling to live in a military like, communal society. And those "liberals" (note the quotes) that would support UHC, and at the same time refuse to look at military health care as an example, are also hypocrites.


    how would they be hypocrits? do you have an example? I think you are trying to look non-partisan here, but your statment fails to deliver. perhaps you can explain old friend.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #140
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    hmmm. you quoted me as one of them evil "conservatives". I think I have shown that indeed you were making a hyper-partisan strawman and attacking a position I never made.

    incorrect. Please re-read you hyper-partisan statement:

    a rather black and white hyper-partisan statement. pure hackery. You called me a hypocrite, I served, I am a vet, I have va benefits, I support all troops getting va healthcare, not just conservatives. it is a contractual benefit. and your statement imo bordered "baiting".....


    how would they be hypocrits? do you have an example? I think you are trying to look non-partisan here, but your statment fails to deliver. perhaps you can explain old friend.
    Here's the thing Reverend. Conservatives tend to be more supportive of the military. I think a comment you made certainly alludes to this: "Careful what you wish for. My bet is that most leftists who crave socialized medicine wouldn't be willing to live in a society such as the military." If one were to scour DP, I'm certain we could find plenty of "conservatives" stating that liberals do not support/hate the military. And hell, I'm sure we could find some "liberals" that do. Conservatives tend to be more supportive of defense spending and of the military. So, my purpose for this was to weed out those who can see the reality of what I have discussed, and not take a purely hypocritical partisan stance on the issue. Why would someone support socialized medicine over a conservative issue, but not a liberal one?

    So what did we discover. When confronted, some folks, including you, presented non-hypocritical positions. You recognize that military health care is socialized. You support it, not because it is a conservative issue, but because our military deserves this benefit. My accusation no longer applies to you, and I retract...to you. But look at the thread. We still have some who don't share your position. My accusation still applies to them. They are still being hypocritical.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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