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Thread: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The contractors are PAID by the U.S. GOVERNMENT. Hence SOCIALIZED. Maybe you should pay attention. The GOVERNMENT pays for them.

    If you'd actually read:

    That clinic was operated by the Navy but staffed by civilian doctors and nurses provided by a private company.

    They are not employed by the government, they receive their checks from a private company, who has the contract.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    If you'd actually read:

    That clinic was operated by the Navy but staffed by civilian doctors and nurses provided by a private company.

    They are not employed by the government, they receive their checks from a private company, who has the contract.

    You love that square peg.
    The private companies are PAID BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. There is no getting around that part. SOCIALIZED. PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT.

    Do you not understand this? Tax payers money as in socialized is paying for their treatment. SOCIALIZED.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    And who pays the premiums on those benefits? The government. And where does the government get the money? The tax payers. It's not just like any other employer who gives private benefits. These are publically funded benefits that only soldiers have access to.
    And everyone has access to join a branch of the military so, no, it's still a compensation and not an entitlement.

    A compensation paid for by everyone but only allocated to a select few. Sounds like socialism to me.
    In return for their service. So, no, still not an entitlement.

    I have no such obstacle.
    Yeah...I'm gonna have to go ahead and call bull**** on that one. The waiting periods to receive care in Canada are notorious.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And everyone has access to join a branch of the military so, no, it's still a compensation and not an entitlement.
    I disagree here, not everyone that wants to serve can. Whether because of their past and/or physical abilities.

    Not everyone has access to join.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The private companies are PAID BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. There is no getting around that part. SOCIALIZED. PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT.

    Do you not understand this? Tax payers money as in socialized is paying for their treatment. SOCIALIZED.
    Socialized medicine: A system of health care in which all health personnel and health facilities, including doctors and hospitals, work for the government and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the US Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. And the Veterans and US military hospitals are also supported this way. Examples also exist in Great Britain and Spain.

    They are not drawing salaries from the government, they work for a private company who pays them. Big difference.
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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And everyone has access to join a branch of the military so, no, it's still a compensation and not an entitlement.
    Children can join the military? Seniors can join the military? The disabled can join the military? People with serious illness can join the military?

    Your argument does not stand. Again, it is socialized health care but provided to only a select few.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    In return for their service. So, no, still not an entitlement.
    What part of socialized is not sinking in? Yes, it's in return for their service, but it's paid for by everyone in the United States, including everyone who is not in the service. Why then are Americans paying for socialized health care that they themselves don't have access to?

    It's one giant hypocrisy.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Yeah...I'm gonna have to go ahead and call bull**** on that one. The waiting periods to receive care in Canada are notorious.
    For who, and for which specialist?

    If you have a serious complication that requires the immediate attention of a specialist, you are bumped to the front of the line. Those with the most need are seen first, and those who are simply inconvenienced can wait.

    Even if you have private insurance, there is no such thing as a "private specialist" for you to bump yourself over to. All specialists are on the public system and are required to see everyone, regardless of their payment method. The only thing that determines the difference in wait is the priority assessment of patients. Your wait time will still be based on the level of need because there are only so many specialists in the country.

    You clearly don't know Canada's health care system at all.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post


    What part of socialized is not sinking in? Yes, it's in return for their service, but it's paid for by everyone in the United States, including everyone who is not in the service. Why then are Americans paying for socialized health care that they themselves don't have access to?

    It's one giant hypocrisy.
    Please, please, please go back and read what the military guys have said about this. It's been answered more than once.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Please, please, please go back and read what the military guys have said about this. It's been answered more than once.
    I did, and I don't agree.

    I often hear from Conservatives regarding universal health care, and all they have to say is that they don't want to pay for other people's bad choices in life. Last time I checked, joining the military and perhaps getting shot, although noble, is still a choice. So why should socialized health care pay for it, and why shouldn't everyone be entitled to free health services?

    Clearly it's a double standard. They are in favour of socialism for the military, and even corporate socialism as part of neo-liberalism, yet it kills them that civilians get socialized anything.

    As I said... I am in favour of treating the military because they perform protective services, but I am not in favour of the double standard of treating the military but not the general public. Clearly socialized medicine is okay under certain circumstances in the U.S., so why not expand it further?

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I did, and I don't agree.

    I often hear from Conservatives regarding universal health care, and all they have to say is that they don't want to pay for other people's bad choices in life. Last time I checked, joining the military and perhaps getting shot, although noble, is still a choice. So why should socialized health care pay for it, and why shouldn't everyone be entitled to free health services?

    Clearly it's a double standard. They are in favour of socialism for the military, and even corporate socialism as part of neo-liberalism, yet it kills them that civilians get socialized anything.

    As I said... I am in favour of treating the military because they perform protective services, but I am not in favour of the double standard of treating the military but not the general public. Clearly socialized medicine is okay under certain circumstances in the U.S., so why not expand it further?
    Yeah, socialized anything is okay if you're willing to give up your liberty, become dependent on government, deal with layers of complex bureaucracy, and get ****ty service. The left will never grasp the inextricable link between economic freedom and social freedom, will they?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    You do realize that this is because they are considered the "property" of the United States government, right? That they have their rights severely restricted during the course of their service and that the government is responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of its property.
    Quoted for truth.

    Edit: and by the way, I think this might be a good thing. I've been asking around and I haven't found anyone yet who would not be willing to sacrifice a bit of their paycheck to pay for wounded soldiers. We'll finally give them the service they deserve.
    Last edited by BulletWounD; 03-18-09 at 01:50 AM.

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    Re: The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I did, and I don't agree.

    I often hear from Conservatives regarding universal health care, and all they have to say is that they don't want to pay for other people's bad choices in life. Last time I checked, joining the military and perhaps getting shot, although noble, is still a choice. So why should socialized health care pay for it, and why shouldn't everyone be entitled to free health services?

    Clearly it's a double standard. They are in favour of socialism for the military, and even corporate socialism as part of neo-liberalism, yet it kills them that civilians get socialized anything.

    As I said... I am in favour of treating the military because they perform protective services, but I am not in favour of the double standard of treating the military but not the general public. Clearly socialized medicine is okay under certain circumstances in the U.S., so why not expand it further?

    Conservatives typically don't want to see their standard of care go down.

    I think some of the confusion comes from the fact that soldiers are providing a service for the gov't and are given benefits in return from the gov't. In that respect their health care resembles socialized medicine. And they do run into some of the problems that countries with socialized medicine face. But, and this is the important part, it is NOT the same as providing health care for all through major taxation. It's not a double standard because you haven't provided a service for the gov't that you haven't been compensated for! Seriously, socialized med for the US population in general is a separate topic. It has nothing to do with what Obama is trying to do to disabled vets. You keep paying lip service that that but then griping about how you haven't been given anything but you don't say what it is you are supposed to be getting something in return for? It is the duty of ALL Americans to provide for the common defense. That is what your tax money is going for. Health care is part of that. If you want to get rid of that because you don't think it is "fair" your taxes will probably stay the same, or more likely increase, because soldiers pay rates will have to go way up to cover their health insurance costs. Retention is an issue for our common defense, you know.

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