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Thread: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Nay, dear boy. You proved unable to support that inaccurate conclusion (which the rational analyst would consider to have some pertinence to Iranian military operations ), in favor of inane ranting about "accepted fact." Considering the inaccurate nature of what your "evidence" would likely have been, you're incorrect by default.
    So you aren't going to argue the point of the thread and you intend to continue derailing this into a discussion about your rabid obsession with me.

    Didn't see that coming.

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Well, your inaccuracy has been expressed via proxy, so it might as well be invalidated that way.



    There! You see, that, gallman? It isn't that difficult.

    The claim that he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" is a mistranslation and distortion of his statement. Ahmadinejad's remarks are reported as having been "een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad," or "[Ayatollah Khomeini] said that this regime occupying Jerusalem must [vanish from] the page of time."

    It is first notable that he did not reference Israel, but the regime in current occupation of Jerusalem. He was referring to the current government of Israel, not the citizenry of Israel or Jewish people in general. In fact, Ahmadinejad has expressed support for the Jewish people (as indicated by his meeting with Neturei Karta, for instance), while at the same time condemning Israeli policies. He has said that, "creating an objection against the Zionists doesn't mean that there are objections against the Jewish." Ahmadinejad also said that Jews lived in Iran and were represented by the Parliament. Yet, as we know, anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are often conflated by pro-Israel lobbies for political gain.

    Next, the phrase "wiped off the map" suggests a hostile military threat, while the phrase "vanish from the page of time" merely expresses a desire that the interventionist Israeli government will eventually lose power and influence. Ahmadinejad has explicitly opposed military action against Israel, declaring, "I assure you... there won't be any war in the future." He has also said that "there is no need for any measures by the Iranian people" to bring about the end of the "Zionist regime" in Israel. Supreme Leader Ali Khameini also said that Iran "will not commit aggression against any nation." The distortion of his claims is essentially equivalent to claiming that Americans who opposes the Bush regime and its policies were calling for its violent overthrow, which is obviously untrue.

    Yet, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Shimon Peres, the current president of Israel, responded by saying, "the president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map." This was reported by essentially no one because the Western media has a pro-Israel bias.
    So the iranian gov't wants a secret nuclear powerplant that it will not allow inspectors to confirm its peaceful purposes and furthermore wishes to enrich uranium itself rather than accepting a multilateral deal to supply unlimited amounts. Not to mention that the support for Hamas/Hezbollah (both or one or the other; I forget) is perfectly in line with their "peaceful" message.

    Its all so clear now. They are the harbingers of peace and non-violent change to the region.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Well, your inaccuracy has been expressed via proxy, so it might as well be invalidated that way.



    There! You see, that, gallman? It isn't that difficult.

    The claim that he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map" is a mistranslation and distortion of his statement. Ahmadinejad's remarks are reported as having been "een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad," or "[Ayatollah Khomeini] said that this regime occupying Jerusalem must [vanish from] the page of time."

    It is first notable that he did not reference Israel, but the regime in current occupation of Jerusalem. He was referring to the current government of Israel, not the citizenry of Israel or Jewish people in general. In fact, Ahmadinejad has expressed support for the Jewish people (as indicated by his meeting with Neturei Karta, for instance), while at the same time condemning Israeli policies. He has said that, "creating an objection against the Zionists doesn't mean that there are objections against the Jewish." Ahmadinejad also said that Jews lived in Iran and were represented by the Parliament. Yet, as we know, anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism are often conflated by pro-Israel lobbies for political gain.

    Next, the phrase "wiped off the map" suggests a hostile military threat, while the phrase "vanish from the page of time" merely expresses a desire that the interventionist Israeli government will eventually lose power and influence. Ahmadinejad has explicitly opposed military action against Israel, declaring, "I assure you... there won't be any war in the future." He has also said that "there is no need for any measures by the Iranian people" to bring about the end of the "Zionist regime" in Israel. Supreme Leader Ali Khameini also said that Iran "will not commit aggression against any nation." The distortion of his claims is essentially equivalent to claiming that Americans who opposes the Bush regime and its policies were calling for its violent overthrow, which is obviously untrue.

    Yet, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Shimon Peres, the current president of Israel, responded by saying, "the president of Iran should remember that Iran can also be wiped off the map." This was reported by essentially no one because the Western media has a pro-Israel bias.
    This has been debated ad nauseum on this site already.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...-violence.html

    Multiple prominent Iranian translators, as well as the official state-run Iranian website translated the statement as "wiped off the map." In the face of that, forgive me if I don't take your analysis as authoritative.

    Simply copy/pasting an argument might fly at other forums, but not here.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This has been debated ad nauseum on this site already.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...-violence.html

    Multiple prominent Iranian translators, as well as the official state-run Iranian website translated the statement as "wiped off the map." In the face of that, forgive me if I don't take your analysis as authoritative.

    Simply copy/pasting an argument might fly at [URL="http://www.politicalforum.com/nuclear-chemical-biological-weapons/57516-us-foreign-policy-encourages-nuclear-proliferation-2.html#post933923[/URL], but not here.
    Why are you feeding it?

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    So you aren't going to argue the point of the thread and you intend to continue derailing this into a discussion about your rabid obsession with me.

    Didn't see that coming.
    Don't flatter yourself.

    You've proven thoroughly unable to offer any evidence or arguments to support your claims. Not that that's especially surprising, but it remains no less a failure on your part.

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    So the iranian gov't wants a secret nuclear powerplant that it will not allow inspectors to confirm its peaceful purposes and furthermore wishes to enrich uranium itself rather than accepting a multilateral deal to supply unlimited amounts. Not to mention that the support for Hamas/Hezbollah (both or one or the other; I forget) is perfectly in line with their "peaceful" message.

    Its all so clear now. They are the harbingers of peace and non-violent change to the region.
    Hmmm...secret nuclear power plant...why does this ring a bell?

    Oh, right! It just so happens that the administration of a certain "other country" in the Middle East was involved in the concealment of their nuclear program from American inspectors upon their visits to the Negev Nuclear Research Center, outside the town of Dimona, in the early 1960's, when they weren't joined at the hip in the USraeli alliance.

    Prime Ministers Ben-Gurion and Eshkol had been advised to comply with inspections "in accord with international standards" by President Kennedy, but they were uncooperative. Prime Minister Levi Eshkol was complicit in this concealment, and is reported to have said, "What am I frightened of? His man [Kennedy's representative] will come and he will actually be told that he can visit [the Dimona site] and go anywhere he wishes but when he wants a door opened at some place or another than [Emanuel] Prat [head of construction at Dimona] will tell him 'Not that.'"

    As I mentioned earlier, if Iran seeks nuclear weapons (and the issue of whether they're being developed is dubious, as inspection teams have reported a higher degree of cooperation than is depicted in Western media outlets), it is a result of an arms race being initiated by an enemy country with 200+ warheads whose president has not-so-subtly threatened to "wipe them off the map."

    EDIT: Incidentally, Hezbollah has expressed a willingness to support the two-state solution if the Palestinians do (to say nothing of the fact that they would likely not exist if not for Israel's ill-conceived 1982 invasion of Lebanon), and while Hamas does not recognize the legitimacy of Israel's existence, their leadership has repeatedly honored peace treaties until they were broken by the IDF.
    Last edited by Agnapostate; 03-16-09 at 08:21 PM.

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    This has been debated ad nauseum on this site already.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/archiv...-violence.html

    Multiple prominent Iranian translators, as well as the official state-run Iranian website translated the statement as "wiped off the map." In the face of that, forgive me if I don't take your analysis as authoritative.
    Let's see...we present a precise quotation of his, along with a translation, and you still rely on arguments that have been rebutted multiple times? Please, get over it. Your ideological pretensions are no substitute for real evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Simply copy/pasting an argument might fly at other forums, but not here.
    Those are my own words. Why am I under some obligation to re-type what I've already written?

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Don't flatter yourself. ...
    Are you just copy/pasting your responses to months-old threads at another debate site that you got banned from?

    Israel's Nuclear Weaponry - Page 2 - Political Forum

    I'd at least like to think we're worthy of some originality here.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Don't flatter yourself.

    You've proven thoroughly unable to offer any evidence or arguments to support your claims. Not that that's especially surprising, but it remains no less a failure on your part.
    Not a failure at all, all your pseudointellectual posturing and trite bull**** arguments aside. You've done nothing to disprove what I stated and, instead, decided to make it about me, personally. That's a real failure.

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
    Let's see...we present a precise quotation of his, along with a translation, and you still rely on arguments that have been rebutted multiple times? Please, get over it. Your ideological pretensions are no substitute for real evidence.
    ...The direct translation from the Iranian government is "wiped off the map." Are you seriously arguing that the Iranian government mis-translated itself, but that you just so happen to be fluent enough in Farsi to catch their mistake and explain what they actually mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Why are you feeding it?
    That's the last one, I swear.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: US Engages in Combat with Iranian Military Vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Are you just copy/pasting your responses to months-old threads at another debate site that you got banned from?

    Israel's Nuclear Weaponry - Page 2 - Political Forum

    I'd at least like to think we're worthy of some originality here.
    Express some original thoughts first. You've said nothing that hasn't been said already (as you yourself implied, this entire alleged "argument" is absurdly repetitive), except reiterate the claim that he used an idiom that doesn't even exist in his language. To each their own, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Not a failure at all, all your pseudointellectual posturing and trite bull**** arguments aside. You've done nothing to disprove what I stated and, instead, decided to make it about me, personally. That's a real failure.
    Try again, friend. I know this must be difficult for you, but let's go over the sequence of events again, veeeeeeeeerrrrry sloooooooooowly.

    1. You claim that Ahmadinejad is a nutjob of some sort. You also claim that he's threatened Israel.

    2. I ask for evidence of this claim.

    3. You are unable to supply it.

    4. I again ask for evidence of this claim.

    5. You are again unable to supply it. Your comrades step in with a mistranslated quote that was addressed years ago, and months ago by me.

    6. You have an obnoxious tantrum, that, while somewhat amusing, is thoroughly counterproductive.

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