• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

White House says economy is sound despite 'mess'

Yes we do have LOAN banks/financial institutions money. Unless you want to see a total collapse of our banking system that would hurt a lot of innocent people.
So, just to make sure I have you straight:

-We have to keep loaning them money for however long it takes to pay it all back;
-We have to also keep spending money on everything else as well, until the banks pay it all back;
-NONE of this is in any way contingent on the performance of the economy.

Right?
 
So, just to make sure I have you straight:

-We have to keep loaning them money for however long it takes to pay it all back;
-We have to also keep spending money on everything else as well, until the banks pay it all back;
-NONE of this is in any way contingent on the performance of the economy.

Right?

So let me get this straight you want to see the total destruction of our banking/financial system, right?
 
So let me get this straight you want to see the total destruction of our banking/financial system, right?
You didnt answer my question.
Is your position as I described it?
 
You didnt answer my question.
Is your position as I described it?

Isn't your position as I described it?

I think my position is pretty clear that we need to support our financial system otherwise the dollar will not be worth the paper it is printed on.
 
Isn't your position as I described it?
If you arent going to be intellectually honest, there's no reason to continue the conversation.

This is, of course, a common occourance with you.
 
If you arent going to be intellectually honest, there's no reason to continue the conversation.

This is, of course, a common occourance with you.

And if you you would stop trying to put words in peoples mouth....ahhh never mind you can't stop doing that.
 
Nothing against RNYC for posting this. It does show a lack of message discipline. Of course, this is on both sides. Just last week this was Obama's recession. Then he was fear mongering. Now, it's true that the Administration's message has lost it's discipline. He was killing confidence. Now he is trying to instill confidence. All this tells me is that neither side has a freaking clue what the future holds but they are jockeying for position to stand clear of the blame.

The sound our economy is making is a giant sucking sound.

It tells me that Obama is just as inexperienced and untested as some of us feared during the election. He can't even keep a message on track...
 
And if you you would stop trying to put words in peoples mouth....ahhh never mind you can't stop doing that.
Um...
You DO know that --asking-- you if I understood your position correctly isnt putting words in your mouth, right?

<edit>
I guess, from you lack of response, you do NOT understand that.
Hmm.
 
Last edited:
A couple thoughts about assumptions behind the rhetoric here:

1) Is there something to the climate of fear that the Obama administration is talking about? That is, can fear in and of itself contribute to a downward spiral where people stop investing and buying?

If so, should the administration take it upon itself to inspire confidence?

The answer to number one is "YES." But the question becomes how does one inspire confidence by suddenly changing messages for purely political convenience?

The rhetoric isn't here in this thread; it is coming from a media and administration that campaigned on rhetoric of fear in order to promote the same old tired Liberal agenda packaged in a new wrapper.

2) Has anything significant happened to the economy since the election season comments of McCain? It seems to me that you can point to a stabilization of the banking industry (which could be considered a fundamental) since then.

The only significant thing happening to the economy is a now steady downturn with no end in sight. I don't see any stabilization yet.


If you answer "yes" to these questions, then I don't see much to criticize Obama on here except an awkward change in tone.

How trite, you see an "awkward change in tone" while people like me see a desperate change from the typical demagoguery of a party that for the last four years tried to tell us how terrible EVERYTHING was and then when they got into power, fear mongered in order to pass the largest spending bill in the history of mankind with no debate about how to pay for it.

Interesting view you have there.


This isn't just a political "gotcha", you have to form an opinion about what is and has been happening to our economy.

But once more you are wrong; this isn't a political gotcha at all; it is a blatant illustration of outright hypocrisy from a party that fear mongered, lied and distorted their way into power.

But thanks for the desperate attempts to downplay the despicable behavior of a willing media and political party that wouldn't know "honesty" if it slapped them on their thick moronic skulls.

What they did to Bush, McCain and Palen was despicable and downplaying it is disingenuous at best.

And now when Obama sounds and acts like Bush did, we should just pretend that the left in this country played nicely?
 
Keep fixing it til it's broke.:roll:
I suspect that the REAL point of the evasion here is that he doesnt think the 'stimulus' spending should be stopped under any contitions -- even of the economy is handomely roaring along -- because, after all, more money spent by Democrats = more votes bought by Democrats.

It is, after all, all about gaining and retaining as much political power as possible.
 
The answer to number one is "YES." But the question becomes how does one inspire confidence by suddenly changing messages for purely political convenience?
I'm not following you here, if "Yes there can be a downward spiral", then why is it you are proposing this message is purely for political convenience and not an effort to stabilize the economy?

The only significant thing happening to the economy is a now steady downturn with no end in sight. I don't see any stabilization yet.
Well, now you've answered "no" to one of my questions, which means a debate actually focuses on what you think the economic reality is.

Certainly, the economy isn't rosy, but I do think the eminent danger, wherein major banking institutions required to keep cash flowing in our economy have stabilized. Yes we still face a serious recession, but that is a much more normal problem.

How trite, you see an "awkward change in tone" while people like me see a desperate change from the typical demagoguery of a party that for the last four years tried to tell us how terrible EVERYTHING was and then when they got into power, fear mongered in order to pass the largest spending bill in the history of mankind with no debate about how to pay for it.
Given that TARP was ushered in by the Bush admin, I'm not sure why you're making a party distinction here.

Obviously if you can only look at the stimulus package as an uneccessary spending package, as opposed to taking the necessary action to get the economy on track, then you're going to be frustrated.

When you actually look at what they are saying they aren't really painting that rosy of a picture. They're basically saying that it's a buyer's market, there are some good values out there, and we're going to pull out of this eventually if we don't give in to fear. IF you believe that the stimulus package was the right response and that the necessary actions are now underway, then there's nothing hypocritical about it.

But once more you are wrong; this isn't a political gotcha at all; it is a blatant illustration of outright hypocrisy from a party that fear mongered, lied and distorted their way into power.
I think you wouldn't come to this conclusion without answering "no" to #2. So I wouldn't consider myself wrong on this point.

And now when Obama sounds and acts like Bush did, we should just pretend that the left in this country played nicely?
Hmmm.... I wouldn't say that was my point really. I just think that you have to buy into a lot more of the Republican narrative for this to be anything meaningful.
 
- even of the economy is handomely roaring along -- because, after all, more money spent by Democrats = more votes bought by Democrats.
.

And you would be wrong as usual.
 
Last edited:
I ask you one question?

Is the comparison and are the questions valid in this instance?
Yes?
No?

The answer:
He has changed his tune to one that is diametrically opposed to everything he's said on the subject to date.

Pre-election he was all sunny tomorrows.
Yes we can.

He's been all over the place like a dog's dick in a few months.
Is he going to give us a personality of the month thingy?

So.
Are the questions and observations consistent with his behavior?

I think you wasted a good bullet on this thread.
It might have worked on another, one aimed at mocking The Great Messiah.

Truthfully, I am growing tired of Obama's comments on the economy, seeming being either emotional or for political gain. However, that does not weaken my point in any way. The extreme right will attack Obama no matter what. The extreme left will support him no matter what. You and others are good examples of this.
 
How so? This thread to me shows obama will say whatever he thinks is best besides the reality either way....


There are far more appropriate threads for you to pull this out of your quiver. This is not one of them my friend.

This quiver is appropriate on a lot of threads on this forum. I posted my objective position on Obama's actions in this matter. I see lots of attacks and some apologies, but few positions.
 
Wrong again; this thread illustrates what a bunch of profound hypocrites Liberals and Democrats are and how they will do and say anything to get elected.

Bush and McCain made the same statements and were kicked in the crotch for them. But now when the Obama Admin says it, suddenly it has respect.

Carry on. :roll:

Yet another example of what I presented. I knew I could count on you, TD. ;)
 
Can you actually discuss anything without your whining about “perceived” partisanship histrionics?

Think for just one second in your life; how does one have a POLITICAL debate forum without "partisan" issues.

Carry on; your clown like assertions illustrate that you couldn't possibly carry out a coherent debate if your life depended on it.

Moderator's Warning:
Three times in three different threads, today, TD. Cease the condescending personal attacks, or their will be infractions in your future.
 
Truthfully, I am growing tired of Obama's comments on the economy, seeming being either emotional or for political gain. However, that does not weaken my point in any way. The extreme right will attack Obama no matter what. The extreme left will support him no matter what. You and others are good examples of this.

Frankly, you are the one with blinders on.
I am a partisan, but not a blind one.
When Bush strayed, I stood up in opposition.
TARP, Immigration, Compassionate Conservatism to name three.

Obama never has deviated from his party.
He reflects its most extreme wing.
Infanticide, and Marxist... "spread the wealth around" economics.

I don't believe in socialism.
I know it, I was one.
If you don't believe in it, how can you defend or accept it?

Conservatives would never vote to send troops to war as a vote for political expediency, and then turn on their own military when the battle got tough... also for political expediency.

That is the sole realm of the Democrat Wacko's.
That... is extreme to the extreme.
Extremely disgusting too.

Now...

To prove your theory dead wrong
... may I enter Exhibit 1A:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/45317-calif-teachers-see-red-over-mass-pink-slips.html
ALERT TO LIBS
Please be seated.


I heard a short bit about what Obama wants to do with schools and teachers.
I heard his Secretary of Education make their case with Wolf Blitzer.

I liked most of what I heard.

I think they have a number of good ideas.
Promote teachers on merit.
The Secretary of education actually parroted my reasoning.
Let the Principals do the firing. They are closest to the situation.

Which means Principals that run crap schools will get the axe.
The dead weight moves out and a better manager can take their place.
Just like businesses.

Lengthen the school year.
Keep schools open longer for activities concerning arts and tutoring.

All great stuff.

We need educated folks to compete with other nations.
Japan, China. Germany. India.

We can acquire theirs, but this comes with risks.

If I were "extreme", a partisan hack... I'd simply ignore the statements made by the Obama Administration on this subject.

I'm simply an honest broker who devoutly believes in Conservatism.

And likes to have fun with the libs... at their expense.
Ridiculing the ridiculous is an effective means of educating.

There is much to ridicule with president Teleprompter, his manic depressive behavior, and his not fit for prime time team of Frau Overcharge, Secretary I'm drowning in the deep end (Dept. of Energy), the unprepared Tax Cheat, and Biden to name a few.


.
 
Last edited:
Frankly, you are the one with blinders on.
I am a partisan, but not a blind one.
When Bush strayed, I stood up in opposition.
TARP, Immigration, Compassionate Conservatism to name three.

Obama never has deviated from his party.
He reflects its most extreme wing.
Infanticide, and Marxist... "spread the wealth around" economics.

I don't believe in socialism.
I know it, I was one.
If you don't believe in it, how can you defend or accept it?

Conservatives would never vote to send troops to war as a vote for political expediency, and then turn on their own military when the battle got tough... also for political expediency.

That is the sole realm of the Democrat Wacko's.
That... is extreme to the extreme.
Extremely disgusting too.

See? You did pretty good here. "Democrat Wackos". There are certainly some. I have little respect for them. "Extreme". You know how I feel about those that could be described this way...left or right.
Now...

To prove your theory dead wrong
... may I enter Exhibit 1A:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/45317-calif-teachers-see-red-over-mass-pink-slips.html


If I were "extreme", a partisan hack... I'd simply ignore the statements made by the Obama Administration on this subject.

I'm simply an honest broker who devoutly believes in Conservatism.

Hmmm...perhaps there is hope for you, yet. :2razz:

And likes to have fun with the libs... at their expense.
Ridiculing the ridiculous is an effective means of educating.

There is much to ridicule with president Teleprompter, his manic depressive behavior, and his not fit for prime time team of Frau Overcharge, Secretary I'm drowning in the deep end (Dept. of Energy), the unprepared Tax Cheat, and then there's Biden to name a few.


.

Or, perhaps not. :2razz:
 
This quiver is appropriate on a lot of threads on this forum. I posted my objective position on Obama's actions in this matter. I see lots of attacks and some apologies, but few positions.




My position is I love this Obama, all wishy washy on the economy..... I made some good beer money the past couple days on garbage stocks...


he needs to keep changing his mind about the economy...... :mrgreen:
 
See? You did pretty good here. "Democrat Wackos". There are certainly some. I have little respect for them. "Extreme". You know how I feel about those that could be described this way...left or right.


Hmmm...perhaps there is hope for you, yet. :2razz:



Or, perhaps not. :2razz:

Cap'n,

You're going to have to understand a couple things.
I am a Conservative.
I believe it is the best way to have a prosperous, safe and free society.

This is a debates forum.
The goal is to sway the other side.
To have them change their minds.

I have changed mine 180 degrees, having been a socialist.
I made this change through debate and self education.
The more I learned, and was honest, the more I realized my original beliefs, though well intended, were proven to fail.

Now I'm doing like-kind, assisting those lost in the Fog of Propaganda.

Ridicule is an effective weapon in debates.
Tremendous in fact.
If you can make the opposition look foolish... you... win... memorably.

I've had people come here and rant about my being hyper-partisan.
I admit it... I am a partisan.
I seek to destroy... socialists.
But I am not a blind partisan.
I, like many other conservatives opposed Bush on key issues.

Now... why expend the effort?

Some of it is the fun factor.
Another is to ensure I write a little everyday.
Another is... when it counts, in the still of the night, engaging your brain about all the info you gather... for some... during these moments the light gets turned on and they begin to realize the errors of their ways.

And pull the lever for a party they didn't believe possible before.
And become partisans for a side they disliked because they did not understand it.
Were not educated about it.
Were instead taught in school to mock and ridicule it... as their teachers did.

I like to share.
I know what walking in the Fog is like, and changing these polluted minds, is my definition of victory.

My definition of community.
Giving.

:2wave:
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom