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Thread: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    Free market approaches are less Utopian than socialist ones because they directly infer human nature.
    Feuerbach resolves the essence of religion into the essence of man [menschliche Wesen = ‘human nature’]. But the essence of man is no abstraction inherent in each single individual. In reality, it is the ensemble of the social relations. Feuerbach, who does not enter upon a criticism of this real essence is hence obliged:

    1. To abstract from the historical process and to define the religious sentiment regarded by itself, and to presuppose an abstract — isolated - human individual.

    2. The essence therefore can by him only be regarded as ‘species’, as an inner ‘dumb’ generality which unites many individuals only in a natural way.

    - Marx, Theses on Feuerbach

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Feuerbach resolves the essence of religion into the essence of man [menschliche Wesen = ‘human nature’]. But the essence of man is no abstraction inherent in each single individual. In reality, it is the ensemble of the social relations. Feuerbach, who does not enter upon a criticism of this real essence is hence obliged:

    1. To abstract from the historical process and to define the religious sentiment regarded by itself, and to presuppose an abstract — isolated - human individual.

    2. The essence therefore can by him only be regarded as ‘species’, as an inner ‘dumb’ generality which unites many individuals only in a natural way.

    - Marx, Theses on Feuerbach
    You can admit it or deny it, but it won't be less true.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    I recently heard that Chavez agreed to let Russia station long
    range bombers in Venezuela. Russia wants to counter America's
    stationing of nuclear missles in Poland (against "Iran", yeah right).
    Take the red pill.

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    Quote Originally Posted by lawshume View Post
    I recently heard that Chavez agreed to let Russia station long
    range bombers in Venezuela. Russia wants to counter America's
    stationing of nuclear missles in Poland (against "Iran", yeah right).
    I'm not trying to dump on Obama but he is very weak in the eye's of our perceived enemies.

    Russia is testing him to see if they can wrestle some power back.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    You can admit it or deny it, but it won't be less true.
    This isn't really an argument. Define what you mean when you say "human nature". Then support your assertion. That is how an argument works ("I'm right and you're not!" is not an argument).

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    This isn't really an argument. Define what you mean when you say "human nature". Then support your assertion. That is how an argument works ("I'm right and you're not!" is not an argument).
    Human nature- What drives humans to continue existence, what the inner man and woman wants and needs and how they get it.
    Some think of it as sin, I think of it as biological psychology.
    We like every other animal on the planet, we are driven to exist in the easiest way possible.

    By definition human nature is selfishness, I don't particularly view it as good or bad.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    Human nature- What drives humans to continue existence, what the inner man and woman wants and needs and how they get it.
    Some think of it as sin, I think of it as biological psychology.
    We like every other animal on the planet, we are driven to exist in the easiest way possible.

    By definition human nature is selfishness, I don't particularly view it as good or bad.
    This makes no sense. If human nature is what drives humans to continue existence, then it isn't "by definition...selfishness," as it is certainly preferable in various circumstances to cooperate rather than compete.

    Moreover, I can point to countless examples that proves that either human nature (i.e. "what drives humans to continue existence") does not exist or if it does then it is easily superseded by the fact that we are conscious, thinking beings.

    If human nature is what you say it is, then how do you reconcile suicide, martyrdom, self-sacrifice, selfless acts of charity, etc...?

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    This makes no sense. If human nature is what drives humans to continue existence, then it isn't "by definition...selfishness," as it is certainly preferable in various circumstances to cooperate rather than compete.

    Moreover, I can point to countless examples that proves that either human nature (i.e. "what drives humans to continue existence") does not exist or if it does then it is easily superseded by the fact that we are conscious, thinking beings.

    If human nature is what you say it is, then how do you reconcile suicide, martyrdom, self-sacrifice, selfless acts of charity, etc...?
    Do you really think that suicide is not a relief to someones pain?
    Martyrdom usually has religious or heroic rewards.

    Charity is done to make people feel good.

    Paaalease. Selfishness goes beyond tangible things.

    Cooperation is done because something is easier to get than if it was done alone.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    Do you really think that suicide is not a relief to someones pain?
    First, you have not offered up an explanation of what human nature is, but merely what it does.

    Second, your original assertion was that human nature "drives humans to continue existence". If that were the case then suicide would go against human nature, whatever the reasoning.

    This invalidates the idea that human nature is an unbreakable law. So if human nature indeed does exist, it is possible to overcome. What, in your opinion, are the circumstances where this is possible? Granted, I'm assuming that you don't believe that human nature is an unbreakable law, as that would be incredibly stupid to believe.

    As for my belief, I don't think human nature exists in the manner that you are presenting it. I certainly think that humans are endowed with the same survival instincts granted to all other species, but it would then be counterintuitive to call this human nature. Following from this, what differentiates humans from other animals is that we can think, we can reason and ultimately we can overcome such instincts. It is in this sense that our instincts have become subordinate to our consciousness.

    Cooperation is done because something is easier to get than if it was done alone.
    Animals enter into relationships in order to further the survival of their species; this can either be in cooperation or competition. Certainly, though, one does not by nature take precedent over the other; these relationships are determined by the environment in which one lives.

    So I agree with your statement, but would qualify it with a second: Competition is done because something is easier to get than if it was done through cooperation.

    Following from this, any such view that the socialization of production "goes against human nature" does not have a leg on which to stand, for if human consciousness is determined by the environment in which it develops then there is no inherent barrier in transforming to one conducive with socialization (aside from one's environment, which is exactly why the Utopian Socialists were incorrect in their outlook).

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    Re: Navy deployed to Venezuela airports, seaports

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    First, you have not offered up an explanation of what human nature is, but merely what it does.

    Second, your original assertion was that human nature "drives humans to continue existence". If that were the case then suicide would go against human nature, whatever the reasoning.

    This invalidates the idea that human nature is an unbreakable law. So if human nature indeed does exist, it is possible to overcome. What, in your opinion, are the circumstances where this is possible? Granted, I'm assuming that you don't believe that human nature is an unbreakable law, as that would be incredibly stupid to believe.

    As for my belief, I don't think human nature exists in the manner that you are presenting it. I certainly think that humans are endowed with the same survival instincts granted to all other species, but it would then be counterintuitive to call this human nature. Following from this, what differentiates humans from other animals is that we can think, we can reason and ultimately we can overcome such instincts. It is in this sense that our instincts have become subordinate to our consciousness.
    We agree on that for the most part then.

    Human nature extends mostly in my opinion from survival instincts, but that is why I said biological psychology.

    It is not an unbreakable law for sure. I should have clarified may definition but I like to respond to posts promptly.

    In general human nature is what drives us to continue existence.
    When that existence becomes to hard to bear for some people they take the easiest and most expedient way out, which is suicide.

    Suicide is an inherently selfish act.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Animals enter into relationships in order to further the survival of their species; this can either be in cooperation or competition. Certainly, though, one does not by nature take precedent over the other; these relationships are determined by the environment in which one lives.

    So I agree with your statement, but would qualify it with a second: Competition is done because something is easier to get than if it was done through cooperation.

    Following from this, any such view that the socialization of production "goes against human nature" does not have a leg on which to stand, for if human consciousness is determined by the environment in which it develops then there is no inherent barrier in transforming to one conducive with socialization (aside from one's environment, which is exactly why the Utopian Socialists were incorrect in their outlook).
    Cooperation and competition are used whenever it is easier.

    They are at times interchangeable, one is no greater than the other.

    The reason I believe the way I do is because I want to take advantage of peoples innate survival instincts to push humanity forward.

    I want people to evolve to the next state, I think that capitalism is the most efficient and expedient way to achieve this goal.

    It is the most fair way in my mind to achieve this as well. The fit move forward which strengthens the entire race of humans.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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