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Thread: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

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    Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

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    My Way News - Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Having read this article, taking note that the possibility exists that there may be fewer forced redundancies than are being suggested, I thought, nay, wondered what the total manpower numerically of those in Government in California.
    My reasoning is that every Government politician (funded by the Californian Taxpayer) is perfectly willing to take Taxpayer money while failing to govern California in a sensible manner.
    I doubt one would see any Politician willingly cede a percentage of his / her salary back to the state for the good of the state?
    There again, perhaps I may be wrong?
    In Texas I heard that an ISD where teachers would need to be laid off, held a poll among all their teachers and decided that they would give up pay for one hour each week, this allowed that ISD to put off making six teachers redundant.
    Definitely a win win situation not only for the six teachers but also and perhaps more importantly for the student body within that ISD.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Link
    My Way News - Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Having read this article, taking note that the possibility exists that there may be fewer forced redundancies than are being suggested, I thought, nay, wondered what the total manpower numerically of those in Government in California.
    My reasoning is that every Government politician (funded by the Californian Taxpayer) is perfectly willing to take Taxpayer money while failing to govern California in a sensible manner.
    I doubt one would see any Politician willingly cede a percentage of his / her salary back to the state for the good of the state?
    There again, perhaps I may be wrong?
    In Texas I heard that an ISD where teachers would need to be laid off, held a poll among all their teachers and decided that they would give up pay for one hour each week, this allowed that ISD to put off making six teachers redundant.
    Definitely a win win situation not only for the six teachers but also and perhaps more importantly for the student body within that ISD.
    The problem I see is four fold.

    How do you determine an incompetent teacher?

    Some, like the previous Bush administration would say those that have students that can't pass a national exam.

    The problem with that is that there are four key factors in a child's education (Not presented in order of importance)

    #1 The administration. If the administration places rules on teachers that prevent them from teaching, this is a problem.

    #2 The teacher. If you have a teacher more concerned about a paycheck than a student, you have a problem.

    #3. The parent. If a parent doesn't care about his/her child's education this can present a problem as well.

    #4. The student. Some students, no matter what the education environment they are in, they simply do not want to put forth the effort to learn.

    My point is blaming the teachers for children not learning is ignorant to say the least without knowing the true situation of all 4 cases I provided IMO.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 03-15-09 at 03:12 AM.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips


    How do you determine an incompetent teacher?
    Run schools more like businesses.
    Dead weight gets replaced.

    Good teachers are easy to spot.
    Poor ones too.

    Fire the duds quickly.
    Pay the better teachers more.

    Competition would raise levels.

    #1 The administration. If the administration places rules on teachers that prevent them from teaching, this is a problem.
    Interesting, and juxtapose this in another direction, this is PRECISELY what happens when socialized medicine is invoked.

    #2 The teacher. If you have a teacher more concerned about a paycheck than a student, you have a problem.
    Quite the opposite.
    If you have to fight for your existence you go the extra mile.

    #3. The parent. If a parent doesn't care about his/her child's education this can present a problem as well.
    True.
    That's a family, not a government issue.

    But... students are in school for 6 hours daily.
    If they are halfwits they will get through.
    School just isn't that challenging today.
    It's almost laughable what passes for "education".

    #4. The student. Some students, no matter what the education environment they are in, they simply do not want to put forth the effort to learn.
    Let me tell share with you an interesting transaction about motivating teens.
    A father pulled his son into his home office, and said to him, "your grades are pretty poor, and it strikes me you don't want to do the work to be at a level of competence. That is OK son, I love you, and if you have so little interest there are solutions where you can be a productive member of society. Today I spoke with the gardener and asked him if he would be willing to take you on as an employee. He said that's fine but he has to be on time when we begin at 05:00 and the days can go until 19:00 when we are in full season.

    His son, tears welling up in his eyes, choked for words was transformed.

    He made his folks proud.

    For those that are not motivated... have their roles in society. Like everyone else they choose how high they rise in society.
    Others learn, but the hard way and pass their failures onto their children... to learn from.
    Some wake up after the fact and redouble their efforts.
    Others become Democrats and blame someone else.

    My point is blaming the teachers for children not learning is ignorant to say the least without knowing the true situation of all 4 cases I provided IMO.
    It is a combination.
    A system and society that tolerates failure, passing failures from one grade to the next and coddles children.
    Poor parents.
    It is THEIR problem. The teenies. It is their life. Somebody has to illustrate actions and inaction has consequences.

    It would be great if the education system would promote Capitalism and its virtues. Our great history and how it translates to our rapid rise.

    I'd let Warren Buffet write the curricula.
    He'd make it fun and interesting and society would benefit tremendously from it.
    His Annual Reports are a great education and are brilliant.
    BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY ANNUAL & INTERIM REPORTS
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-15-09 at 11:58 AM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    ALERT TO LIBS
    Please be seated.


    I heard a short bit about what Obama wants to do with schools and teachers.
    I heard his Secretary of Education make their case with Wolf Blitzer.

    I liked most of what I heard.

    I think they have a number of good ideas.
    Promote teachers on merit.
    The Secretary of education actually parroted my reasoning.
    Let the Principals do the firing. They are closest to the situation.

    Which means Principals that run crap schools will get the axe.
    The dead weight moves out and a better manager can take their place.
    Just like businesses.

    Lengthen the school year.
    Keep schools open longer for activities concerning arts and tutoring.

    All great stuff.

    We need educated folks to compete with other nations.
    Japan, China. Germany. India.

    We can acquire theirs, but this comes with risks.


    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Run schools more like businesses.
    Dead weight gets replaced.

    Good teachers are easy to spot.
    Poor ones too.

    Fire the duds quickly.
    Pay the better teachers more.

    Competition would raise levels.

    Interesting, and juxtapose this in another direction, this is PRECISELY what happens when socialized medicine is invoked.


    Quite the opposite.
    If you have to fight for your existence you go the extra mile.


    True.
    That's a family, not a government issue.

    But... students are in school for 6 hours daily.
    If they are halfwits they will get through.
    School just isn't that challenging today.
    It's almost laughable what passes for "education".


    Let me tell share with you an interesting transaction about motivating teens.
    A father pulled his son into his home office, and said to him, "your grades are pretty poor, and it strikes me you don't want to do the work to be at a level of competence. That is OK son, I love you, and if you have so little interest there are solutions where you can be a productive member of society. Today I spoke with the gardener and asked him if he would be willing to take you on as an employee. He said that's fine but he has to be on time when we begin at 05:00 and the days can go until 19:00 when we are in full season.

    His son, tears welling up in his eyes, choked for words was transformed.

    He made his folks proud.

    For those that are not motivated... have their roles in society. Like everyone else they choose how high they rise in society.
    Others learn, but the hard way and pass their failures onto their children... to learn from.
    Some wake up after the fact and redouble their efforts.
    Others become Democrats and blame someone else.


    It is a combination.
    A system and society that tolerates failure, passing failures from one grade to the next and coddles children.
    Poor parents.
    It is THEIR problem. The teenies. It is their life. Somebody has to illustrate actions and inaction has consequences.

    It would be great if the education system would promote Capitalism and its virtues. Our great history and how it translates to our rapid rise.

    I'd let Warren Buffet write the curricula.
    He'd make it fun and interesting and society would benefit tremendously from it.
    His Annual Reports are a great education and are brilliant.
    BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY ANNUAL & INTERIM REPORTS
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-16-09 at 01:11 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    #1 The administration. If the administration places rules on teachers that prevent them from teaching, this is a problem.
    I would agree with this if every teacher under the same administration were failing.

    #2 The teacher. If you have a teacher more concerned about a paycheck than a student, you have a problem.
    Another issue with the teachers is that they simply do not keep up with their continuing education requirements. We also have some very unqualified teachers here in California.

    #3. The parent. If a parent doesn't care about his/her child's education this can present a problem as well.
    I agree 100% here. If parents aren't taking part in their child's education, then the child is going to be set up for failure.

    #4. The student. Some students, no matter what the education environment they are in, they simply do not want to put forth the effort to learn.
    This is true, too, but it is no indication of how the teacher is faring at his job. Basing the teacher's performance on the performance of individual students is not going to give an accurate assessment of the teacher's competence.

    Now looking at the combined average of the students gives a much better picture. This is where standardized tests are useful.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Link
    My Way News - Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Having read this article, taking note that the possibility exists that there may be fewer forced redundancies than are being suggested, I thought, nay, wondered what the total manpower numerically of those in Government in California.
    My reasoning is that every Government politician (funded by the Californian Taxpayer) is perfectly willing to take Taxpayer money while failing to govern California in a sensible manner.
    I doubt one would see any Politician willingly cede a percentage of his / her salary back to the state for the good of the state?
    There again, perhaps I may be wrong?
    In Texas I heard that an ISD where teachers would need to be laid off, held a poll among all their teachers and decided that they would give up pay for one hour each week, this allowed that ISD to put off making six teachers redundant.
    Definitely a win win situation not only for the six teachers but also and perhaps more importantly for the student body within that ISD.
    This makes great talking points for the Liberals and Democrats but the FACTS don't support the demagogueing; these are sent out as required by their UNION contracts and doesn't mean that ANY teachers will get laid off.

    This is an attempt once again to FOOL Californians into thinking that the money to education has been so drastically reduced we will be having MASSIVE teacher layoffs.

    Anyone want to make a wager as to how many teachers will be let go come summer?

    This is another YAWNER like most Liberal talking points.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Another issue with the teachers is that they simply do not keep up with their continuing education requirements. We also have some very unqualified teachers here in California.
    In Georgia, if you don't do this, your certificate is NOT renewed. However, though teachers already make a relatively low salary, they have to pay for many of the continuing education requirements out of their own pockets.
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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    In Georgia, if you don't do this, your certificate is NOT renewed. However, though teachers already make a relatively low salary, they have to pay for many of the continuing education requirements out of their own pockets.
    That's part of the profession. If you aren't willing to do what it takes to stay current, then choose another profession.

    Here in California, we have some straight up unqualified teachers on top of them not keeping up with their continuing ed requirements. And the Unions shield them.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The problem I see is four fold.

    How do you determine an incompetent teacher?

    Some, like the previous Bush administration would say those that have students that can't pass a national exam.

    The problem with that is that there are four key factors in a child's education (Not presented in order of importance)

    #1 The administration. If the administration places rules on teachers that prevent them from teaching, this is a problem.

    #2 The teacher. If you have a teacher more concerned about a paycheck than a student, you have a problem.

    #3. The parent. If a parent doesn't care about his/her child's education this can present a problem as well.

    #4. The student. Some students, no matter what the education environment they are in, they simply do not want to put forth the effort to learn.

    My point is blaming the teachers for children not learning is ignorant to say the least without knowing the true situation of all 4 cases I provided IMO.

    Naturally. Teachers can't be the problem.

    They've got a union.

    Too bad the taxpayers don't have anyone in Sacramento to take their side, eh?
    Last edited by Scarecrow Akhbar; 03-16-09 at 09:12 PM.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    However, though teachers already make a relatively low salary, they have to pay for many of the continuing education requirements out of their own pockets.
    So?

    It's their job they're working to keep, isn't it?

    It's not my job, so I shouldn't be required to pay their continuing education. If they don't want to keep their job, they don't have to pay for their education.

    Pretty simple, that.

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