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Thread: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    That's part of the profession. If you aren't willing to do what it takes to stay current, then choose another profession.

    Here in California, we have some straight up unqualified teachers on top of them not keeping up with their continuing ed requirements. And the Unions shield them.
    However, if you want to attract and RETAIN good teachers, you need to remunerate them appropriately and perhaps provide financial assistance to help them take the necessary courses needed to stay current.
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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    So?

    It's their job they're working to keep, isn't it?

    It's not my job, so I shouldn't be required to pay their continuing education. If they don't want to keep their job, they don't have to pay for their education.

    Pretty simple, that.
    Then pay them a salary that won't make it a financial burden to do so. Either that, don't expect to draw good, qualified people to teach our children.
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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Then pay them a salary that won't make it a financial burden to do so. Either that, don't expect to draw good, qualified people to teach our children.
    Salaries are supposed to be determined by the free market.

    X number teachers competing for Y number of jobs where Y < X, and the teachers have to make decisions about how much they'll accept to teach school rather than paint houses, and the schools have to determine what they need to pay to get teachers in front of the students, not house painters.

    Ain't no reason at all why the teaching industry should be treated any differently than any other.

    The teacher who knows best that the third grade teacher is an incompetent boob? The fourth grade teacher that gets his students.

    That fact should be applied to the "how to grade teachers performance" issue in some manner.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Run schools more like businesses.
    Dead weight gets replaced.

    Good teachers are easy to spot.
    Poor ones too.

    Fire the duds quickly.
    Pay the better teachers more.

    Competition would raise levels.
    Before I jump on the Zimmer bandwagon here, a couple questions first: 1)How do you feel about standardized testing and 2)how do you feel about the tax hikes needed to attract the better paid teachers?

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Before I jump on the Zimmer bandwagon here, a couple questions first: 1)How do you feel about standardized testing and 2)how do you feel about the tax hikes needed to attract the better paid teachers?
    Standardized testing is essential.

    Tax increases are unnecessary.

    I mean, it's not like the US doesn't spend more per student than any other industrialized nation in the world to produce the most ignorant but most highly self-esteemed graduates to be found anywhere.

    Clearly it's not a spending problem. Clearly the schools have more than enough money now. All that needs doing is figuring out what they're doing wrong. That's easy. They're wasting the kids time with tons and tons of garbage. Teach 'em how to read, in english. Teach 'em how to write, in english. Teach 'em mathematics. Teach 'em science. Teach 'em history. The real stuff, not the water down nonsense I see them struggling with now. Teach 'em these things are important and valuable.

    People were doing that before teaching got modernized, ain't any excuses for the failures the teaching industry has shown since "better" methods were invented. If they were better methods, the kids would have continued to learn, right? So they're not better methods. So stop using them and go back to the basics.

    Phonics. My sixty year old teachers in 1966 taught phonics. She wasn't my friend, and she was stern. So I was reading Leon Uris novels within four years. Yeah, I'm exceptional...but not one single person in my class couldn't read. Nope everyone one of the people in the fourth grade, in all the classes, could read.

    If they couldn't read on the fourth grade level...they didn't get put in the fourth grade. Hows that for an archaic notion, the concept of failure? Kids don't like it, kids will work to avoid that label.

    Addition and multiplication tables. It's how I learned math, and I can do calculus in my head. How about you modern teacher types? IMO a passing grade in first year calculus should be required for a high school diploma.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Standardized testing is essential....

    Tax increases are unnecessary.

    (snip)

    Clearly the schools have more than enough money now.
    May I ask where you live? Because you've also said things like "racism is over in this country" and "there is zero evidence of global warming." And now you're saying that schools have more than enough money. I'd love to debate you, but it seems like you're coming from some parallel universe I don't recognize.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    However, if you want to attract and RETAIN good teachers, you need to remunerate them appropriately and perhaps provide financial assistance to help them take the necessary courses needed to stay current.
    They already have that assistance. If teachers want to be paid properly, they need to give proper attention to their jobs.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    They already have that assistance. If teachers want to be paid properly, they need to give proper attention to their jobs.
    The best teacher in the world can't teach a student if the Student doesn't want to learn, the parent doesn't care, and the administration doesn't care.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The best teacher in the world can't teach a student if the Student doesn't want to learn, the parent doesn't care, and the administration doesn't care.
    I agree with that. I was talking specifically about teachers who don't keep up with their continuing education requirements.

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    Re: Calif. teachers see red over mass pink slips

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    May I ask where you live? Because you've also said things like "racism is over in this country" and "there is zero evidence of global warming." And now you're saying that schools have more than enough money. I'd love to debate you, but it seems like you're coming from some parallel universe I don't recognize.
    Yeah, I live in the real universe where the per capita education spending in the state of California was nearly half of what I spent to attend a prestigious eastern private university for an engineering education.

    I can't imagine any rational scenario where it costs half as much to not teach a child to read as it does to teach someone the intricacies of aerospace vehicle design and analysis.

    Clearly, the states spend too much money per student.

    The corollary to that statement is the states are spending enough money and the corollary to that is that the states do not need to raise taxes to pay for reforms in their education system.

    Money isn't the problem.

    That most teachers suck...that's the problem.

    That the unions run the show...that's the problem.

    You socialists have achieved your goal...the nation is broke...that means you can't keep throwing money at problems...you have to start fixing the problems.

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