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Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

I think the answer to this is fairly simple. If you believe the governance and management of the state of California over the past few decades should serve as a model for financial sanity, then by all means, legalize and tax marijuana.

On the other hand, if you wonder why the state with the most natural resources, best ports for trade, best climate, best universities, and some of the most dynamic cities in the nation can't seem to pay its bills...

...then a hare-brained plan to tax marijuana might give you just a little moment of pause.

:2wave:
 
I think the answer to this is fairly simple. If you believe the governance and management of the state of California over the past few decades should serve as a model for financial sanity, then by all means, legalize and tax marijuana.

On the other hand, if you wonder why the state with the most natural resources, best ports for trade, best climate, best universities, and some of the most dynamic cities in the nation can't seem to pay its bills...

...then a hare-brained plan to tax marijuana might give you just a little moment of pause.

:2wave:

California is currently facing a water shortage, farmers are shutting down acreage, so much for climate.
I wonder if it had a shortage of illegal aliens, would its ability to pay its bills be better?
 
California is currently facing a water shortage, farmers are shutting down acreage, so much for climate.

Knocking California's great climate because it's suffering from a drought is like knocking your star quarterback because he's suffering from a sore wrist. He's still far better than the average player.

Every state, depending on its location, has climate issues and problems to address. And most states would be quite happy to enjoy the climate California enjoys. Compared to most states, it has a very good climate, which is a major reason its agricultural production has been first in the nation for over 50 years. CA Dept of Food & Agriculture

All states face drought. The solution to drought is sound planning and water management. California's irrigation and water management problems are a direct result of insufficient reservoir systems and too few damn, among other factors. Often these projects, necessary to provide water, are blocked due to environmental objections who oppose 'corporate agribusiness.'

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger praised Senator Dave Cogdill’s (R-Fresno) introduction of SB 371, the Safe, Clean, Reliable Drinking Water Supply Act of 2009, another thinly disguised attempt to build a peripheral canal and more dams....

However, a coalition of recreational and commercial fishing groups, environmental organizations, Indian Tribes and others are opposing any proposal that includes a peripheral canal and more dams. The purpose of the canal and more dams is to create the infrastructure to export more water to corporate agribusiness on the west side of the San Joaquin Valley at a time when Central Valley Chinook salmon, delta smelt, longfin smelt, green sturgeon and other fish populations are in collapse, due to massive water exports out of the California Delta and declining water quality in recent years.
CA Progress Report

You can raise all the new taxes in the world... but if you can't use them to build new or restore old infrastructure... you'll not get very far.

;)
 
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Interesting. If they fully legalize marijuana (not happening), don't you think it would force the Obama administration to rethink its position on those pot raids for political survivability?

What exactly would that change about legalizing marijuana?
 
So you want to turn little children into potheads?

Little children already are potheads. Why? because it is so readily available. There is ZERO control over the distribution of pot, and with a black market distribution it is readily available to any child who so desires to get it.

When I was in school it was effortless to attain pot, and for that matter LSD, cocaine, and with a bit of asking around just about any substance you cared to partake of - with the exception of 2, alcohol, and to a lesser extent tobacco. These actually took a bit of effort to attain, and especially for alcohol it more often than not came up empty handed. All good, pot was always a phone call away on the weekend, or if it was a weekday I could just pick it up at school. That has not changed one bit. As long as unscrupulous individuals control the distribution there is absolutely ZERO control over whether or not our children can get their hands on it.

Legalizing pot would make it MUCH more difficult for a child to attain.
 
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1. legalize marijuana
2. smoke it a lot everyday
3. get stupid, lazy

I don't follow. Are you suggesting that drug laws stop people from becoming drug-addicts?

Look, granted my statment was hyperbole, however the point stands, this is not a way out of the recession for California.

So long as you can admit that said statement was indeed hyperbole I won't take any issue with your latter presumption e.g., that legalization will not solve California's economic woes. I certainly feel it would be financially beneficial but I concur that it is no panacea.

And those who smoke weed to excess are no better than an alcholic. there lives revolve around a substance, often becoming the main focus of whatever activity they are doing.

I agree. Drug addiction is harmful but I fail to see how this is pertinent. Nobody is condoning or encouraging drug addiction as far as I know.

How many really well off people smoke this much weed?

I couldn't say, but it's not really my concern.
 
So you want to turn little children into potheads?

Are you fine with turning little children into alcoholics?

People are going to smoke weed after you ban it and after it is unbanned, the best you can do is teach your children about the problems and hope for the best.

Marijuana as a child is always easier obtainable than alcohol.
 
Are you fine with turning little children into alcoholics?

People are going to smoke weed after you ban it and after it is unbanned, the best you can do is teach your children about the problems and hope for the best.

Marijuana as a child is always easier obtainable than alcohol.

You know, this series of posts did cause me to think back to my own high school years during the 70s. It occurs to me that very few kids (that I knew of) ever drank alcohol during school hours. On the other hand, quite a few smoked pot during school hours. Of course in those days, we had a smoking lounge on school grounds, so it was a bit easier for those smoking weed to fit in, perhaps.

But all the same... I think there really is a difference between pot-smokers and alcohol drinkers... even at this young age. Kids would often go out partying and get roaring drunk on weekends. But not in school. Drugs are different. They're even sold in school. Still are. Big time in some areas.

;)
 
Little children already are potheads. Why? because it is so readily available. There is ZERO control over the distribution of pot, and with a black market distribution it is readily available to any child who so desires to get it.

When I was in school it was effortless to attain pot, and for that matter LSD, cocaine, and with a bit of asking around just about any substance you cared to partake of - with the exception of 2, alcohol, and to a lesser extent tobacco. These actually took a bit of effort to attain, and especially for alcohol it more often than not came up empty handed. All good, pot was always a phone call away on the weekend, or if it was a weekday I could just pick it up at school. That has not changed one bit. As long as unscrupulous individuals control the distribution there is absolutely ZERO control over whether or not our children can get their hands on it.

Legalizing pot would make it MUCH more difficult for a child to attain.

I could buy weed in middle school.

The only thing I could never find was hash but every other drug I could of possibly wanted was readily available for my consumption if I wanted it.
 
I could buy weed in middle school.

The only thing I could never find was hash but every other drug I could of possibly wanted was readily available for my consumption if I wanted it.

See my post above.

Some often say there's little or no difference between pot-smoking and alcohol-drinking. I think your example here demonstrates how these activities are VERY different.

;)
 
See my post above.

Some often say there's little or no difference between pot-smoking and alcohol-drinking. I think your example here demonstrates how these activities are VERY different.

;)

Alcohol is worse in my opinion. It has a higher addiction rate than weed I think.

I live in a **** dirt town at the moment and all the teens here go sit in parking lots and get drunk.

It is obvious prohibition has never worked but try telling the resident christian coalition that lives here.
 
Alcohol infinitely cost the state more also, you guys are forgetting.

How much domestic violence can be directly attributed to Marijuana(*crickets*)...but on the other hand how much domestic violence can be contributed to alcohol?

Almost all domestic violence had alcohol apart of the equation.

All those calls for police officers, court dates, jail time and so on possibly could exceed millions.

Should we ban Alcohol?

Of course not, but we should be teaching people better habits then just leaving people be with these substances. Which should be our exact same stance on marijuana.
 
Alcohol is worse in my opinion. It has a higher addiction rate than weed I think.

I live in a **** dirt town at the moment and all the teens here go sit in parking lots and get drunk.

It is obvious prohibition has never worked but try telling the resident christian coalition that lives here.

I've met plenty of alcoholics who were hopelessly lost causes. Beat their spouses, drive drunk, get into frequent fights, etc. I've never once, not in my entire life (with 14 years on the enforcement side) met somebody actually addicted to marijuana.

Grateful Heart said:
I think the answer to this is fairly simple. If you believe the governance and management of the state of California over the past few decades should serve as a model for financial sanity, then by all means, legalize and tax marijuana.

On the other hand, if you wonder why the state with the most natural resources, best ports for trade, best climate, best universities, and some of the most dynamic cities in the nation can't seem to pay its bills...

...then a hare-brained plan to tax marijuana might give you just a little moment of pause.
What does California's past have to do with whether or not legalizing marijuana is a good idea or a "hair brained" idea.

Please explain.
 
You know, this series of posts did cause me to think back to my own high school years during the 70s. It occurs to me that very few kids (that I knew of) ever drank alcohol during school hours. On the other hand, quite a few smoked pot during school hours. Of course in those days, we had a smoking lounge on school grounds, so it was a bit easier for those smoking weed to fit in, perhaps.

But all the same... I think there really is a difference between pot-smokers and alcohol drinkers... even at this young age. Kids would often go out partying and get roaring drunk on weekends. But not in school. Drugs are different. They're even sold in school. Still are. Big time in some areas.

;)

The difference is the kids know it is unrealistic to even attempt to conceal alcohol at school, what is the likelihood of being able to conceal a bottle of vodka in your underwear?? Never mind how hard it is to conceal the effects and smell of alcohol on your breath. Even the most stupid of kids realize that having alcohol or being buzzed by it at school was just begging to get caught.

Also alcohol is a social drug, even kids are aware being drunk at school is just not fun at all, it is for letting loose and tossing your inhibitions to the wind, something appropriate for a party, but not at all for school.
 
The difference is the kids know it is unrealistic to even attempt to conceal alcohol at school, what is the likelihood of being able to conceal a bottle of vodka in your underwear?? Never mind how hard it is to conceal the effects and smell of alcohol on your breath. Even the most stupid of kids realize that having alcohol or being buzzed by it at school was just begging to get caught.

Also alcohol is a social drug, even kids are aware being drunk at school is just not fun at all, it is for letting loose and tossing your inhibitions to the wind, something appropriate for a party, but not at all for school.

Plus the effects of marijuana vs. alcohol are quite noticeable. I can easily spot a drunk, their behavior is usually much more pronounced. Stoners...you can spot 'em, but their actions aren't generally as outrageous as drunks.

And you are quite right about the ability to conceal a joint vs. a bottle of bourbon.
 
See my post above.

Some often say there's little or no difference between pot-smoking and alcohol-drinking. I think your example here demonstrates how these activities are VERY different.

;)

That i agree with wholeheartedly they are VERY different.

One of those listed has at times made me wake up in the morning wondering what the **** happened last night?? how the **** did i get home last night?? who the **** is this in my bed this morning?? Where is my car? **** I was supposed to be at work 2 hours ago. -run to the shower- wtf?? why is my face all marked up, did I get into a fight last night??

The other hasn't ever caused any of the above.
 
Do you drink at work? If you don't then your opinion, position and whatever argument you tried to make is automatically destroyed.

Strippers do. "your opinion, position and whatever argument you tried to make is automatically destroyed."
 
I was going to post a sound case for legalization and control of all drugs, something carried over form a post last night where I was literally falling asleep at the keyboard. I'm going to let an article written by someone else who has a bit more authority and inside knowledge of the issue make the case instead.

A few bullet points of my own first.

legalizing would

* drastically reduce the availability to our children, ideally until they are old enough to make mature decisions (I was addicted to cocaine at 17, fortunately it only lasted a few months until I wised up to the situation)

* virtually eliminate gangs and gang related violence, our murder rates would plummet, drive by shootings would become a rarity.

* generate $billions in revenue instead of costing $billions

* allow control of purity and quality drastically reducing overdose potential.

* dramatically reduce the spread of hepatitis, aids and other diseases

* drastically reduce prison crowding, and clogging of our judicial system

* Free law enforcement to focus the bulk of their attention to crimes where there is a victim ie. violent crimes, theft, ect.

* allow treatment and counseling for those with a problem instead of socially and financially damning them

* Stop being a huge revenue source for those we are opposed to, Afghanistan? Farc rebels in Columbia?

I could probably go on, that is just a few off the top of my head.

and now for those who are interested in reading more I will let a retired narcotics officer make the case in detail.

LEAP - Publications › Publications - Jack Cole › End Prohibition Now!
 
A few bullet points of my own first.

legalizing would

* drastically reduce the availability to our children, ideally until they are old enough to make mature decisions (I was addicted to cocaine at 17, fortunately it only lasted a few months until I wised up to the situation)

I won't address each and every one of your bullet points. I'll just tackle the first one. What leads you to the conclusion that legalizing any drug would reduce its availability to kids? In fact, this defies common sense. Alcohol and tobacco are readily available to kids.

No logic there whatsoever. Sorry.

:shock:
 
Also alcohol is a social drug, even kids are aware being drunk at school is just not fun at all, it is for letting loose and tossing your inhibitions to the wind, something appropriate for a party, but not at all for school.

Well, as I mentioned, we had a lot of kids who seemed to enjoy being high in school. As I recall, the 'stoners' in my school weren't at the top of the class. Most of them weren't even in the middle of the class. They generally showed up ill-prepared, and were lucky to get passing grades, if they weren't in some sort of trouble or flunking out altogether.

(Now's when the straight "A" stoners all stand up to swear smoking pot had no effect on grades in school.)

;)
 
Well, as I mentioned, we had a lot of kids who seemed to enjoy being high in school. As I recall, the 'stoners' in my school weren't at the top of the class. Most of them weren't even in the middle of the class. They generally showed up ill-prepared, and were lucky to get passing grades, if they weren't in some sort of trouble or flunking out altogether.

(Now's when the straight "A" stoners all stand up to swear smoking pot had no effect on grades in school.)

;)

Who is talking about legalizing marijuana for those under the legal age of adulthood?
 
Who is talking about legalizing marijuana for those under the legal age of adulthood?

If you legalize marijuana the ONLY possible outcome is that it will be more readily available to those under the legal age.

:shock:
 
If you legalize marijuana the ONLY possible outcome is that it will be more readily available to those under the legal age.

:shock:

So let me get this straight, you are against legalizing marijuana because if it is legalized for those over 21, those underage people that ALREADY get it might still get it.

What an idiotic reason. People like you are the ones that thought prohibition actually worked :roll:
 
If you legalize marijuana the ONLY possible outcome is that it will be more readily available to those under the legal age.

:shock:


No. Poll after poll, year after year teens report that marijuana is EASIER to attain than beer.

Forty-two percent of 12- to 17-year olds can buy marijuana in a day or less; 23 percent in an hour or less.

Marijuana continues to be easier to buy than beer: 23 percent of teens find it easiest to buy compared to 15 percent who find beer easiest to buy.


edit for source: CASAColumbia.org: News Room: Press Releases: National Survey of American Attitudes on Substance Abuse XIII: Teens and Parents

So something that is in millions of kids homes sitting in their fridge is harder to attain than something that is illegal which we have spent untold billions of dollars on in the last 34 years of this "Drug War" in a futile attempt to suppress availability??

Sure kids can always find someone older to get it for them, but something that is LEGALLY controlled and distributed is HARDER for a kid to get. I cannot even grasp how you think that it being legal would make it any easier for a kid to get.
 
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