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Thread: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Oh... I thought the consensus of the pro-legalization folks was that legalization would result in decreased use. I'm fairly certain that point's been made over and over in this thread.
    Those statistics are based on the Dutch population itself. The tourism industry on the other hand provides a world wide travel destination for people within the cannabis culture.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Has anyone reviewed the Miron report on the savings for all levels of government with the legalization of cannabis?

    Ill repost to pertain to the topic: Costs of Marijuana Prohibition: Economic Analysis

    Being that this thread is about California's budget, do you believe cannabis legalization would increase the states tax revenue?
    Last edited by Kushinator; 03-20-09 at 12:44 AM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    I dont see why they shouldnt legalise the worlds most boreing drug.
    The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Those statistics are based on the Dutch population itself. The tourism industry on the other hand provides a world wide travel destination for people within the cannabis culture.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Has anyone reviewed the Miron report on the savings for all levels of government with the legalization of cannabis?

    Ill repost to pertain to the topic: Costs of Marijuana Prohibition: Economic Analysis

    Being that this thread is about California's budget, do you believe cannabis legalization would increase the states tax revenue?
    Yeah I have seen that before, its findings are well circulated as well, in fact I have seen it cited in a newspaper articles in the last couple of weeks since Ca announced AB 390. It is based on a lot of assumptions, but it seems to try to err on the side of caution for most of it. It is a reasonable attempt to set expectations of savings and revenue, although it is a lot of conjecture and speculation. The taxation rate even if based on alcohol/tobacco taxation is modest.

    I am trying to dig up the actual research where California had attained its $1.3 billion estimate for tax revenue derived from AB 390. I can't track it down though, although I had read it a few weeks back. It detailed not only the estimated ta revenue, but also the savings for law enforcement, prosecution, and incarceration as well.

    But yes, it will generate tax revenue, and I think the $1.3 billion was a fair and reasonable estimate, add onto that the amount of savings in enforcement costs (wish I could find that hard data right now) which estimates have put as high as another $1 billion, the answer is yes, it will generate a solid increase in revenue.

    <sits back and waits for the "no it won't make them any revenue because the damn libruls will just spend it all" off point replies>
    Last edited by marduc; 03-20-09 at 01:26 AM.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    <sits back and waits for the "no it won't make them any revenue because the damn libruls will just spend it all" off point replies>
    That's a great point... the state lotteries were implemented to bring in billions in additional revenues to make up for deficits.

    The California lottery brings in about $1.5B each year to the state. Money well spent, no doubt.


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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Its simple really, on a state level, they are running a deficit, how do you get out of a deficit? increase revenue. decrease spending. Others have argued this will not help rescue (some conveniently decide to omit the word help) the economy.

    Whether it be the states budget, or for the overall economic woes it will help both.

    State budget, increase in revenue via taxation, decrease in expenditure via enforcement costs. In a nut shell this will help, what legislators do after the fact is moot, although some have attempted to use that as an argument against.

    On an overall state economic level, it will help as well. It will create more jobs and revenue within the state in a market that was previously the (illegal) providence of mexican drug cartels and underground production (Mexican cartels have been steadily increasing their position in instate marijuana cultivation in California, illegally, and with illegal labor). The production will go to licensed people who have to submit to a background check, pay a $5,000 initial fee, and $2500 annual renewal. Same fees and background checks are to be applied to retail licenses. The result is jobs and income that has been outsourced and sent directly to Mexico stays in California. These are just the cultivation and distribution aspects and not counting other potential economic bonuses such a tourism, paraphernalia sales, hemp products, ect. In a nutshell billions of dollars of revenue that was sent directly to Mexico stays in California, most assuredly a help for their floundering economy.

    This is just the economic impact this could have. A pleasant side effect will be the hamstringing of gangs, and drug distribution related violence, which is epidemic. Will it go away completely? NO, but their cash cow is gone, it has been estimated the Mexican Drug Cartels attain 60 - 70% of their revenue from Marijuana alone. All of this passes through gangs throughout CA prior to eventually making its way to the cartels.

    Is this the miracle cure for what ails California?? NO, although some here have been misinterpreting that as the gist of the topic. Will it HELP the economy, both for the states coffers, and for the public at large?? yes.
    Last edited by marduc; 03-20-09 at 02:06 AM.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Its simple really, on a state level, they are running a deficit, how do you get out of a deficit? increase revenue. decrease spending. Others have argued this will not help rescue (some conveniently decide to omit the word help) the economy.

    Whether it be the states budget, or for the overall economic woes it will help both.

    State budget, increase in revenue via taxation, decrease in expenditure via enforcement costs. In a nut shell this will help, what legislators do after the fact is moot, although some have attempted to use that as an argument against.

    On an overall state economic level, it will help as well. It will create more jobs and revenue within the state in a market that was previously the (illegal) providence of mexican drug cartels and underground production (Mexican cartels have been steadily increasing their position in instate marijuana cultivation in California, illegally, and with illegal labor). The production will go to licensed people who have to submit to a background check, pay a $5,000 initial fee, and $2500 annual renewal. Same fees and background checks are to be applied to retail licenses. The result is jobs and income that has been outsourced and sent directly to Mexico stays in California. These are just the cultivation and distribution aspects and not counting other potential economic bonuses such a tourism, paraphernalia sales, hemp products, ect. In a nutshell billions of dollars of revenue that was sent directly to Mexico stays in California, most assuredly a help for their floundering economy.

    This is just the economic impact this could have. A pleasant side effect will be the hamstringing of gangs, and drug distribution related violence, which is epidemic. Will it go away completely? NO, but their cash cow is gone, it has been estimated the Mexican Drug Cartels attain 60 - 70% of their revenue from Marijuana alone. All of this passes through gangs throughout CA prior to eventually making its way to the cartels.

    Is this the miracle cure for what ails California?? NO, although some here have been misinterpreting that as the gist of the topic. Will it HELP the economy, both for the states coffers, and for the public at large?? yes.
    That got me thinking. The amount of jobs lost by jail guards, and drug enforcement officers will surely be made up in farmers, producers, retailers, transportation (it has to get from one place to another), education and help groups, etc....
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post

    On an overall state economic level, it will help as well. It will create more jobs and revenue within the state in a market that was previously the (illegal) providence of mexican drug cartels and underground production (Mexican cartels have been steadily increasing their position in instate marijuana cultivation in California, illegally, and with illegal labor). The production will go to licensed people who have to submit to a background check, pay a $5,000 initial fee, and $2500 annual renewal. Same fees and background checks are to be applied to retail licenses. The result is jobs and income that has been outsourced and sent directly to Mexico stays in California. These are just the cultivation and distribution aspects and not counting other potential economic bonuses such a tourism, paraphernalia sales, hemp products, ect. In a nutshell billions of dollars of revenue that was sent directly to Mexico stays in California, most assuredly a help for their floundering economy.

    This is just the economic impact this could have. A pleasant side effect will be the hamstringing of gangs, and drug distribution related violence, which is epidemic. Will it go away completely? NO, but their cash cow is gone, it has been estimated the Mexican Drug Cartels attain 60 - 70% of their revenue from Marijuana alone. All of this passes through gangs throughout CA prior to eventually making its way to the cartels.

    Is this the miracle cure for what ails California?? NO, although some here have been misinterpreting that as the gist of the topic. Will it HELP the economy, both for the states coffers, and for the public at large?? yes.
    I'm in favor of legalization.

    I think you've misjudged a few things in your post here though.

    The drug cartels aren't going anywhere, and neither are the other criminal elements associated with drugs.

    The cartels will merely set up legal operations and employ illegal workers.
    Why would they give up their empires, when they can reduce operating costs by going legal?

    The criminal element will always exist, it's called the black market. They'll ignore the tax laws and sell non taxed pot.

    How many black market industries exist in America? Cigarettes, guns, booze etc...

    The topic is whether it will rescue California's economy. I don't think it will.
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    The drug cartels aren't going anywhere, and neither are the other criminal elements associated with drugs.
    After prohibition was repealed what happened?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    After prohibition was repealed what happened?
    The Kennedy's sold their liquor openly.
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Oh... I thought the consensus of the pro-legalization folks was that legalization would result in decreased use. I'm fairly certain that point's been made over and over in this thread.
    Have quotes for that? I have not got that indication at all, save for a few arguing perhaps that it will reduse the use of those under age doing it. You can't take that argument and twist it to apply to all. Please, lets see some quotes to back this up.

    The difficulty I'm having here is that I seem to be surrounded by several different viewpoints... and when I respond to one poster I'm met with a rebuttal from another, who then disavows the argument of the poster to whom I originally responded.
    You're having difficulty because you've had a transparent, obvious, see through agenda that a blind man could spot 30 miles away from the point that you came into this thread and as such its benefits your position to act confused and having difficulties because you've not once in this entire thread had a legitimate reason for why it shouldn't be legalized, instead continually and repeatedly deflecting with things such as "Well, look at other countries laws" which is not a reason or "Well, your arguments for it aren't consistant" which isn't an argument against it.

    You can't MAKE an argument against it so you attempt to use the logic that because people want it legalized for different reasons that somehow means it shouldn't be legalized which makes no logical sense at all and is a non-argument. You act confused by peoples responses because you have no ability to make one of your own so its your only defense to tread water.

    Its no wonder this has gotten little traction in the voting booth because people like you who can't apply logic, can not look at this in any way besides a purely emotional and propoganda filled way, continue to try and mislead and confuse the general population about matteres.

    People in this thread have given a large amount of potential reasons why it SHOULD be legalized; from economical, to constitutional, to security, and on. Give us one or two good reasons why it should be ILLEGAL, not pointing to another country going "look at how they're doing it", but actual REASONS you believe the federal government should tell people they are not allowed to grow, sell, or use marijuana.

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