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Thread: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    These are the same statistics used to demonstrate that the U.S. has twice the rate of marijuana usage as do the Dutch. Are you telling me they're not reliable?

    Are you also telling me you're comfortable with the Dutch statistics and that they're not subject to errors in reporting?


    Our crime statistics are not reliable. We severely under report. And I have no idea about the accuracy of Dutch statistical reporting so I'll reserve any comment on it.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Our crime statistics are not reliable. We severely under report. And I have no idea about the accuracy of Dutch statistical reporting so I'll reserve any comment on it.
    If the validity of both U.S. and Dutch statistics about marijuana use are suspect, then how do we know that decriminalization does indeed reduce use?


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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    If the validity of both U.S. and Dutch statistics about marijuana use are suspect, then how do we know that decriminalization does indeed reduce use?

    The occurrence of error is logically lower with a population of 15 million than 300 million plus spread throughout 50 states bordering two major oceans.

    I can tell you this. Cannabis prices in states like Indiana greatly exceed those of California or even cities like Chicago (to a certain degree).
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    The occurrence of error is logically lower with a population of 15 million than 300 million plus spread throughout 50 states bordering two major oceans.

    I can tell you this. Cannabis prices in states like Indiana greatly exceed those of California or even cities like Chicago (to a certain degree).
    California has a great climate for cultivation.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    If the validity of both U.S. and Dutch statistics about marijuana use are suspect, then how do we know that decriminalization does indeed reduce use?

    I never made that case at all. I don't think it will decrease use. I think it will increase use, and I don't care about that. I'm not in the business of regulating personal responsibility with regard to over indulgence in vices. That is a personal issue. Society already has mechanisms in place to deal with people who abuse to the point of actual criminality.

    This is about a failed drug war that is creating an environment of incredible violence, overcrowded prisons, and massive economic burden. Legalization can only result in a plus factor across the board.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I never made that case at all. I don't think it will decrease use. I think it will increase use, and I don't care about that.
    Oh... I thought the consensus of the pro-legalization folks was that legalization would result in decreased use. I'm fairly certain that point's been made over and over in this thread.

    The difficulty I'm having here is that I seem to be surrounded by several different viewpoints... and when I respond to one poster I'm met with a rebuttal from another, who then disavows the argument of the poster to whom I originally responded.

    It's no wonder this issue has made little progress in the voting booth.


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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Oh... I thought the consensus of the pro-legalization folks was that legalization would result in decreased use. I'm fairly certain that point's been made over and over in this thread.

    The difficulty I'm having here is that I seem to be surrounded by several different viewpoints... and when I respond to one poster I'm met with a rebuttal from another, who then disavows the argument of the poster to whom I originally responded.

    It's no wonder this issue has made little progress in the voting booth.

    Decreased use? I dunno. It would probably stay the same. A lot of the "forbidden fruit" factor would be removed but intellectual curiosity would probably make up for that. I can't see an increase in use, especially hard drugs like crack and heroin.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Oh... I thought the consensus of the pro-legalization folks was that legalization would result in decreased use. I'm fairly certain that point's been made over and over in this thread.

    The difficulty I'm having here is that I seem to be surrounded by several different viewpoints... and when I respond to one poster I'm met with a rebuttal from another, who then disavows the argument of the poster to whom I originally responded.

    It's no wonder this issue has made little progress in the voting booth.

    I think those that smoke now would continue to smoke and those that are curious but were afraid of getting caught would try it. I see an increase coming. Other may disagree. That's an ancillary argument though. Who really cares if the usage increases that much?
    *insert profound statement here*

  9. #529
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Oh... I thought the consensus of the pro-legalization folks was that legalization would result in decreased use. I'm fairly certain that point's been made over and over in this thread.

    The difficulty I'm having here is that I seem to be surrounded by several different viewpoints... and when I respond to one poster I'm met with a rebuttal from another, who then disavows the argument of the poster to whom I originally responded.

    It's no wonder this issue has made little progress in the voting booth.

    I think you are thinking that based upon my argument that legalizing it would lead to a decrease in accessibility and use in juveniles. ( I have scaled back my thinking on this a bit after research and debate here, although I still do not think there will be an increase.)

    I did in fact come across several major government sanctioned studies that conclude that decriminalization has had no statistical net gain in users from the data. I have in no way suggested that it would lead to a decrease in usage for the population as a whole, although a lack of increase of usage in these studies among non juvenile users was a surprising find.

    I am fairly certain that in fact there will be an initial increase in usage (with of age adults) with legalization at first, then it will taper off to a baseline usage level. Past studies do suggest that it would be comparable to current usage rates, however these studies are studies of decriminalization, not legalization.

    My latest re-posting of one of the excerpts from these papers a page or so back, was to illustrate to you that the states that have decriminalized MJ for the most part had higher usage rates than other states to begin with. I had bolded the wrong portion for that re-post and did not realize this until after It was too late to edit, however that is one of the studies that concluded in comparison to other states, there was a slight decrease in usage in more lenient states.

    Will there be a decrease in legitamate of age users?? I don't know, it would be nice, but I don't expect it, and I have not pressed that issue, my apologies if somehow you got the idea that that was a position I was taking.
    Last edited by marduc; 03-20-09 at 12:25 AM.

  10. #530
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    That's an ancillary argument though. Who really cares if the usage increases that much?
    I was about to post something along those lines, you summed it up rather succinctly for me though.

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