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Thread: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post


    I am sure you can find even more up to date information that confirms the previous statistics:Dutch Drug Policy Even More Effective

    I await your response
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Do not dismiss viable and realistic options when we know the position we have currently is a total failure.

    If you have not, read the article I posted with an open mind, and think about it. anarchy, or control?
    I don't agree with your premise that what we have now is anarchy. We have control. An imperfect form of control, no doubt. But it's illogical to dismiss law enforcement as anarchy. Even under 'regulated' legalization, law enforcement will be an integral component.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I don't agree with your premise that what we have now is anarchy. We have control. An imperfect form of control, no doubt. But it's illogical to dismiss law enforcement as anarchy. Even under 'regulated' legalization, law enforcement will be an integral component.
    You think we have "control" over the drug situation? Is that what you are saying? Because if it is, you are absolutely wrong. We have ZERO control over the drug situation. We react to it and nothing more. And the manner in which we react is archaic, inefficient, ineffective, and self-destructive to our nation.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    I am sure you can find even more up to date information that confirms the previous statistics:Dutch Drug Policy Even More Effective

    I await your response
    One word... demographics.


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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I don't agree with your premise that what we have now is anarchy. We have control. An imperfect form of control, no doubt. But it's illogical to dismiss law enforcement as anarchy. Even under 'regulated' legalization, law enforcement will be an integral component.
    an·ar·chy

    1 a: absence of government b: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
    Is the government really the authority when drug cartels count on a certain amount of drugs to get intercepted. Do we have any authority, or control over their lawlessness? They do as they please,m go ahead ask any drug smuggler how much authority our government has over them, ask the Farc, ask the afghans growing poppies in a country that we are occupying, ask the mexican drug cartels as they slaughter thousands both in the streets of mexico, and the streets right here in the U.S. at the same time they intimidate law enforcement to step down in fear.

    Do we have any authority, or is there law in neighborhoods where 14 year old kids openly peddle drugs on the corner, and a drive by shooting witnessed by the entire neighborhood goes unsolved because no one will step forward and testify?

    The drug trade is impervious to our so called "government authority", and does in fact operate in a system of complete lawlessness.

    One drug dealer goes down, 5 step up to take his place. thanks to our "authority" we have a darwinian natural selection, we catch the inept drug dealers, while the cream of the crop continue to operate completely immune to this so called "authority" in a complete state of lawlessness.

    There is no control over whether a child can get their hands on drugs, there is no control over distribution, there is no control over the violence, this is indeed anarchy.
    Last edited by marduc; 03-19-09 at 06:16 PM.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    One word... demographics.

    You are going to have to be more specific.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    You are going to have to be more specific.
    Sure... if you were to examine marijuana usage by state in the U.S., for instance, would you conclude that the states with fewer pot smokers have better legal and enforcement approaches than the states with more pot smokers??




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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Sure... if you were to examine marijuana usage by state in the U.S., for instance, would you conclude that the states with fewer pot smokers have better legal and enforcement approaches than the states with more pot smokers??
    I would say that's pretty irrelevant, considering our current "War on Drugs" is a catastrophic failure.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Sure... if you were to examine marijuana usage by state in the U.S., for instance, would you conclude that the states with fewer pot smokers have better legal and enforcement approaches than the states with more pot smokers??



    I wouldn't conclude that at all. Before I would even think of applying any conclusion about the relative success or failure of law enforcement efforts in a specific region I would want to study their Uniform Criminal Reporting stats and take a look at how they trend from year to year. One of the problems plaguing the federal effort to track crime stats is inaccurate reporting or under reporting. UCR and NIBRS are very complex reporting processes and many agencies either lack the technology to do it properly or have the technology but fail to use it properly.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Sure... if you were to examine marijuana usage by state in the U.S., for instance, would you conclude that the states with fewer pot smokers have better legal and enforcement approaches than the states with more pot smokers??


    I would conclude that there was insufficient data to draw a conclusion.

    What date was this data from? how does it compare to data prior to the relaxation of drug laws. I would argue that the states with lenient laws had a higher percentage of users prior to enacting these laws. This in itself fostered a desire to amend the status quo both among the drug using minority, and the non using majority who were more aware of how unrealistic and ineffectual a tough stance really was.

    I would also resurrect points that I brought up in post # 161 in this thread

    Among those:

    "Levels of use tended to be higher in the decriminalization states both before and after the changes in law. [s]tates which moderated penalties after 1974 (essentially a group of decriminalization states) did indeed experience an increase in rates of marijuana use, among both adolescents (age 12-17) and adults (18 or older). However, the increase in marijuana use was even greater in other states and the largest proportionate increase occurred in those states with the most severe penalties."
    - W. Saveland and D. Bray. 1980. American Trends in Cannabis Use Among States with Different Changing Legal Regimes. Bureau of Tobacco Control and Biometrics, Health and Welfare: Ottawa, as cited by E. Single in The Impact of Marijuana Decriminalization: an Update
    unfortunately there have been no recent studies to draw from, seems our government is not all that keen on funding them for some reason <shrug>
    Last edited by marduc; 03-19-09 at 07:55 PM.

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