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Thread: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    The only thing apparent is your inability to recognize the definition of trolling. I am beginning to think it starts with an "e" and ends with a "b".

    Did you mention one time in here that you are an educator? If so, it doesn't surprise me the state our schools are in failing to truly educate our youth.
    I am not an educator. You would know that if you actually read any posts before responding to them with attacks.
    Last edited by First Thought; 03-17-09 at 02:54 PM.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Again.... you simply ignore the facts presented.

    Where marijuana is legalized, people do indeed go many miles out of their way to obtain it:

    BBC NEWS


    DW Worldwide

    Look, another bonus to the economy....tourism

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by thabigred View Post
    In the county next to mine they have a ban on alcohol for sale on sundays, but do they restrict people to drive to my county to buy alcohol?

    No.

    This is the beauty of living in country of seperated states, we can hold different laws and still function properly. Face it, you have a straw man arguement, how many people will drive many many miles out of there way to buy legal marijuana when they can get it cheaper on the street corner near their house.

    Majority of smokers will not drive out of there way to obtain Marijuana, you need to realize this, and come up with a real arguement why you are skeptical of this legislation.
    You're right, why drive when you can get it FedEx

    I just watched a documentary on California's marijuana cultivaters, impressive to say the least. I'm betting pot will be legalized out there within the next two years, and within 15 years we'll see it in the majority of states.

    I live in Florida, definitely a drug haven, and FedEx is busy down here:

    Messed up FedEx numbers lead to big Florida pot bust | 10connects.com | Tampa, St. Petersburg, Clearwater
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Look, another bonus to the economy....tourism
    Exactly. Many people travel to Holland, and Asia due to relaxed laws in prostitution.

    Selling is legal, ****ing is legal, so why isn't selling ****ing legal?
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    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Exactly. Many people travel to Holland, and Asia due to relaxed laws in prostitution.
    Yeah, I always found it laughable that sex is legal when two willing participants engage in it, yet as soon as money is exchanged, it becomes a crime.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    You're right, why drive when you can get it FedEx

    I just watched a documentary on California's marijuana cultivaters, impressive to say the least. I'm betting pot will be legalized out there within the next two years, and within 15 years we'll see it in the majority of states.

    I live in Florida, definitely a drug haven, and FedEx is busy down here:

    Messed up FedEx numbers lead to big Florida pot bust | 10connects.com | Tampa, St. Petersburg, Clearwater
    IF AB 390 goes through it will be a lot quicker than 2 years. The bill has been referred to the committee of public safety and health, hearing scheduled for 3/31.

    Bill List

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    IF AB 390 goes through it will be a lot quicker than 2 years. The bill has been referred to the committee of public safety and health, hearing scheduled for 3/31.

    Bill List

    Hopefully it goes through, and the path will be set to open up other states to follow suit.

    Like I stated in a previous post, I don't think it'll save California's economy, but it'll definitely generate tax revenue, and save untold amounts in manpower and money, in regard to law enforcement, court and incarceration.
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Sorry you mistook my very reasonable question as a logic fallacy.

    If I were to argue that murder is wrong because nearly every culture has laws against it... that would be an appeal to majority, a logic fallacy.

    On the other hand, if I were to ask you if the people who support murder laws around the world are all deluded, that would be a reasonable question which I'd reasonably expect you to answer.

    So tell me... if the logic for legalization of marijuana is so common-sensical, so obvious, so plain to see... why do you believe people around the globe don't see that logic in the same common sense way you do?

    Have they all been duped?

    Well, your question is based upon a logical fallacy, despite your insistence to the contrary. You are making a direct appeal to the majority and this is immaterial to the validity of drug laws, especially when one considers the context of our argument e.g., US law. However, I will address your premise for the sake of argument.

    First of all, murder laws are not comparable to marijuana laws, neither in frequency or magnitude. I think it's safe to assume that every country on the planet outlaws murder in some way, but the same cannot be said of marijuana.

    Secondly, neither of us can speak intelligently about foreign perceptions and legal history. I don't know why other countries decided to criminalize marijuana but neither do you, thus it is not relevant to our discussion. You cannot ask me to address the varied and unique legal circumstances of numerous countries in a comprehensive manner; each must be addressed separately within the appropriate context.

    Having said that, I CAN tell you why it is criminalized in the US and I CAN tell you why it makes no sense legally, logically, morally, or philosophically, therefore, I will not deign to discuss irrelevant scenarios and contexts.

    Marijuana's criminalization in America can be directly linked to racism and blatantly dishonest propaganda. Although the racism inherent in anti-drug laws has somewhat dissipated, the misinformation campaign has remained quite potent, thus Americans are less predisposed towards having an honest dialouge about marijuana and drugs in general. Furthermore, there is a very strong socially conservative influence in America, and, given their religious and moral inclinations, it's no wonder why legalization faces such uphill battles. I could go on but I'd like to see how this has informed your perspective thus far.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    I would be more than happy to accept but for the fact that no one in this forum ever seems able to set up a "true debate" and I have already one outstanding challenge from MakeoutHobo for one.

    It appears there is insufficient manpower on the forum to oversee "true debates" for the present time. So let's just have a "true" debate right here in the general forums.
    Fair enough.

    What would you like to "true" debate? How Marijuana can rescue California's economy?
    No, I have not claimed as much. Although I feel California's economy would derive a benefit from legalization and taxation I do not feel it would be nearly enough to overcome the massive burden incurred by their panoply of entitlements.

    What I am arguing is this: there is no valid argument against legalization. There is no legal, moral, logical, or philosophical argument against it. The liberty we Americans enjoy is the liberty of negative rights, at least, that's what the Founding Fathers intended. Practices that do not engender an inherent violation of the rights of others should not be subject to criminalization.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Well, your question is based upon a logical fallacy, despite your insistence to the contrary. You are making a direct appeal to the majority and this is immaterial to the validity of drug laws, especially when one considers the context of our argument e.g., US law. However, I will address your premise for the sake of argument.

    First of all, murder laws are not comparable to marijuana laws, neither in frequency or magnitude. I think it's safe to assume that every country on the planet outlaws murder in some way, but the same cannot be said of marijuana.
    It seems as if you're trying to convince me that the example of a logic fallacy I gave is, indeed, a logic fallacy. Rather odd.

    That does not mean discussion of 'majority opinion' is necessarily a logic fallacy. In fact, understanding majority and minority opinions is usually crucial to understanding the issue under debate. So no, I've not appealed to the majority. I've simply asked you to explain it. Which you attempt to do later, because, I suspect, you understand it's not a logic fallacy at all, but extremely relevant to the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Secondly, neither of us can speak intelligently about foreign perceptions and legal history. I don't know why other countries decided to criminalize marijuana but neither do you, thus it is not relevant to our discussion. You cannot ask me to address the varied and unique legal circumstances of numerous countries in a comprehensive manner; each must be addressed separately within the appropriate context.
    I don't know why not. I suspect neither of us were around in the early 1900's when marijuana laws were first put in place in the U.S. So we must rely on research. I expect you're bright enough to research the history of Dutch laws, or British laws, or Turkish laws, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Having said that, I CAN tell you why it is criminalized in the US and I CAN tell you why it makes no sense legally, logically, morally, or philosophically, therefore, I will not deign to discuss irrelevant scenarios and contexts.
    The problem some of us are having is that relevance or irrelevance seems to change from post to post. For instance, some supporters of legalization deny that 'drug tourism' will take place if pot is legalized in California. Others acknowledge that it will take place, but suggest that it will be a good thing by helping out California's economy. So even among advocates, there doesn't seem to be a coherent position as to what may or may not happen if marijuana is legalized. And I suspect that lack of a coherent position is one of the primary reasons Americans don't support legalization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Marijuana's criminalization in America can be directly linked to racism and blatantly dishonest propaganda. Although the racism inherent in anti-drug laws has somewhat dissipated, the misinformation campaign has remained quite potent, thus Americans are less predisposed towards having an honest dialouge about marijuana and drugs in general.
    As I demonstrated in a previous post, most Americans NOW understand the relative dangers of alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana. So this idea that Americans are still having the wool pulled over their eyes, or aren't willing to accept basic facts about marijuana due to some ongoing misinformation campaign just isn't supported by the evidence.

    But here it is again, a fairly recent opinion poll of Americans from NORML, Zogby Poll:

    Three Out Of Four Americans Say Booze, Tobacco Pose Greater Risk Than Marijuana

    Washington, DC: Americans rank marijuana as far less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco, according to national poll of 1,109 likely voters by Zogby International and commissioned by The NORML Foundation.

    Forty-seven percent of respondents said they believe that alcohol is the most dangerous recreational drug among the three choices. More than one-quarter of respondents (28 percent) believe tobacco to be the most dangerous. Only one-fifth (20 percent) of Americans say that marijuana is the most dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Furthermore, there is a very strong socially conservative influence in America, and, given their religious and moral inclinations, it's no wonder why legalization faces such uphill battles. I could go on but I'd like to see how this has informed your perspective thus far.
    Well I'm curious why you believe politicians such as Obama, without doubt the most liberal president of our time, is inclined to oppose legalization. Do you believe he's appealing to a socially conservative base?

    Last edited by Grateful Heart; 03-17-09 at 05:44 PM.

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