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Thread: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

  1. #391
    Student thabigred's Avatar
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Well, I've been trying very hard to get people to look at the models of marijuana legalization around the world... such as the Netherlands. And it seems that the pro-legalization folks can't seem to accept that those models are all rife with problems.

    In the county next to mine they have a ban on alcohol for sale on sundays, but do they restrict people to drive to my county to buy alcohol?

    No.

    This is the beauty of living in country of seperated states, we can hold different laws and still function properly. Face it, you have a straw man arguement, how many people will drive many many miles out of there way to buy legal marijuana when they can get it cheaper on the street corner near their house.

    Majority of smokers will not drive out of there way to obtain Marijuana, you need to realize this, and come up with a real arguement why you are skeptical of this legislation.
    The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live. ~ Ayn Rand
    A politician divides mankind into two classes: tools and enemies.~ Nietzsche

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Truth Detector, do you still believe that legalizing marijuana would not reduce the scope and profitability of the illegal marijuana trade?

    Dont worry, ill wait
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    For all those interested: Costs of Marijuana Prohibition: Economic Analysis

    Some clips:
    • One issue in this debate is the effect of marijuana prohibition on government budgets. Prohibition entails direct enforcement costs and prevents taxation of marijuana production and sale.
    • This report examines the budgetary implications of legalizing marijuana – taxing and regulating it like other goods – in all fifty states and at the federal level.
    • The report estimates that legalizing marijuana would save $7.7 billion per year in government expenditure on enforcement of prohibition. $5.3 billion of this savings would accrue to state and local governments, while $2.4 billion would accrue to the federal government.
    • The report also estimates that marijuana legalization would yield tax revenue of $2.4 billion annually if marijuana were taxed like all other goods and $6.2 billion annually if marijuana were taxed at rates comparable to those on alcohol and tobacco.
    • The savings in state and local government expenditure that would result from marijuana legalization consists of three main components: the reduction in police resources from elimination of marijuana arrests; the reduction in prosecutorial and judicial resources from elimination of marijuana prosecutions; and the reduction in correctional resources from elimination of marijuana incarcerations.[2] There are other possible savings in government expenditure from legalization, but these are minor or difficult to estimate with existing data.[3] The omission of these items biases the estimated savings downward.
    • To estimate the state savings in criminal justice resources, this report uses the following procedure. It estimates the percentage of arrests in a state for marijuana violations and multiplies this by the budget for police. It estimates the percentage of prosecutions in a state for marijuana violations and multiplies this by the budget for prosecutors and judges. It estimates the percentage of incarcerations in a state for marijuana violations and multiplies this by the budget for prisons. It then sums these components to estimate the overall reduction in government expenditure. Under plausible assumptions, this procedure yields a reasonable estimate of the cost savings from marijuana legalization.[4]
    Last edited by Kushinator; 03-17-09 at 12:01 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #394
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    what problems does the Netherlands have that can possibly compare to the horrific things that go on in the War on Drugs.

    The WOD makes the Patriot Act look positively libertarian.

    Do you realize the the FDA is self funding AND self regulating?

    The FDA and DEA decide on a drug scheduling- without congressional involvement in any way- and then then DEA decides on enforcement. The DEA is permitted to sell any seized property of convicted drug felons- and keep the proceeds.

    So they FDA and the DEA write the laws and then the DEA collects their own funds.

    They're their own government, accountable to no one.
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    And imagine how productive we will all be when our airplane industry is supplanted by the pot industry.

    Yes folks, it will be a blissful paradise; millions will be just sitting around toking and listening to Jimmy Hendrix instead of worrying about how to find a real job. But that will be okay because California and Obama will make it easier to survive without the burdens of worrying how to feed yourself there will be food stamps, or working because unemployment benefits will keep being extended, or paying your mortgage because rich taxpayers will subsidize yours.

    After all, gambling is also a harmless activity. While we are making illegal drugs legal, we should also just legalize gambling! Think how productive we all will be!!!

    Life is so simple if you can only get past life’s REALITIES.
    Gambling is legal in almost all states to some degree. We do have lotteries in most states, and then there's bingo and card playing.

    You're assuming everyone would want to smoke marijuana. I think not. Lots of people drink an occasional glass of wine, but don't drink the whole bottle, everyday. Most American's like having "stuff", and the thrill of competition, so I seriously doubt everybody would be non-productive even using marijuana regularly. Many of the negatives about marijuana are generalizations, and wouldn't be the norm for average users.

    I think people need to have fun, and the more ways to do it, all the better.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    go for it California!!!
    But, restrictions to legally buy it or smoke it is to be over 21, gainfully employed, and not on welfare or food stamps.
    I agree with the not allowing to use if there on welfare or food stamps. I'm sure many welfare and food stamp folks will be running to any job. That would take care of California’s unemployment rates and generate revenue!

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by ted bailey View Post
    I agree with the not allowing to use if there on welfare or food stamps. I'm sure many welfare and food stamp folks will be running to any job. That would take care of California’s unemployment rates and generate revenue!
    What jobs?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Why not legalize everything nadjust tax it? It is the same principal. Stop arresting murderers and save the costs of court trials and prisons.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    Why not legalize everything nadjust tax it? It is the same principal. Stop arresting murderers and save the costs of court trials and prisons.
    Murder involves victimization. Your attempt at comparison is probably the most fallacious argument yet set forth by anti-drug proponents. When i get blazed off some dank ass chronic, who might i ask, is the victim? Myself? If that is truly your answer, than why not make McDonald's food illegal to consume, because it can be a major contributor to heart disease and child obesity, of which a great deal of despair and social rejection originates.

    Marijuana does not kill you, and does not lead to obesity and heart disease on its own accord.

    Question to those who are against drug legalization: Why is it ok to eat myself into poor health, and eventually death, but is not ok to get euphoric on a natural substance that has been used for thousands of years without any subnormal externality?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by thabigred View Post
    ...how many people will drive many many miles out of there way to buy legal marijuana when they can get it cheaper on the street corner near their house.

    Majority of smokers will not drive out of there way to obtain Marijuana, you need to realize this, and come up with a real arguement why you are skeptical of this legislation.
    Again.... you simply ignore the facts presented.

    Where marijuana is legalized, people do indeed go many miles out of their way to obtain it:

    Dutch cannabis policy challenged
    The Dutch have long been famous for their tolerant attitude to cannabis.

    But now they are re-examining their approach, because millions of European "drugs tourists" are heading to the Netherlands to do what they cannot do at home, the BBC's Mike Donkin reports.
    BBC NEWS


    Dutch Coffee Shops Close as Authorities Weed out Drug Tourists

    Each year, thousands of German drug tourists cross the border into the Dutch town of Enschede, where soft drugs such as marijuana are sold openly. Now, a government crackdown is forcing many coffee shops out of business.

    A dense, sweet-smelling smoke fills the room in the De Molen coffee shop. Here in the Dutch city of Enschede, the streets are littered with places like De Molen, which openly sell soft drugs such as hashish or marijuana.

    But dozens of coffee shops have had to close shop in recent months, reflecting a growing consensus in the Netherlands that the country's notoriously liberal drug policy is currently doing more harm than good.

    Enschede has been particularly problematic for local authorities, because of its immediate proximity to the German border. Thousands of drug tourists, mainly from Germany, pour across the border each year for a taste of legal marijuana, a controlled substance in almost every country of the world -- including, technically, the Netherlands.

    "Many Germans come to visit Enschede just because of our coffee shops -- that is a fact," says Enschede city spokesman Michael Haase. Indeed, the nearest coffee shop is located just 300 meters beyond the border checkpoint.

    The Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs has published a brochure complaining that shops located along the German border "frequently" cause trouble. And Haase says local residents are sometimes harassed by glassy-eyed drug tourists.

    Enschede's drug trade has also become a liability for the border police, as drug tourists are regularly caught trying to smuggle the lucrative weed back into their home country.
    DW Worldwide


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