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Thread: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Are you accepting my challenge to a true debate?
    I would be more than happy to accept but for the fact that no one in this forum ever seems able to set up a "true debate" and I have already one outstanding challenge from MakeoutHobo for one.

    It appears there is insufficient manpower on the forum to oversee "true debates" for the present time. So let's just have a "true" debate right here in the general forums.

    What would you like to "true" debate? How Marijuana can rescue California's economy?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Falls under federal jurisdiction and laws currently on the books. If ther farmer is responsible for the interstate trafficking, then yes. If he sold it through legal avenues and someone else misdirected it, no.
    Well, one of the reasons the marijuana trade in the Netherlands is so wildly lucrative is because of 'drug tourism.' People flocking across borders to purchase it legally. I'm assuming many of these 'tourists' take their marijuana home with them.

    The towns of Roosendaal and Bergen op Zoom on the Dutch-Belgian border are to close down all the cafes which sell marijuana because of the problems being caused by drug tourists, reports the NRC on Thursday.

    The paper says every week 25,500 French and Belgian nationals flock to the towns to buy marijuana from their eight so-called coffee shops.

    The influx of tourists is causing traffic congestion, petty crime and street dealing, and all efforts to reduce the nuisance have failed, the paper quotes local officials as saying.

    Official Dutch drugs policy means users can have up to five grammes of marijuana without being prosecuted. Coffee shops can have up to 500 grammes in stock.

    The two town councils say they have no plans to compensate coffee shop owners for the loss of business. 'They should be happy we have tolerated them for so long,' Roosendaal mayor Michel Marijnen told the paper.

    The border crack down is the latest in a string of extra controls being placed on the thriving Dutch marijuana trade.

    The cabinet is already looking at ways to reduce drugs tourism following complaints from Belgium and Germany. And in March, health minister Ab Klink agreed to carry out a 30-year review of Holland's liberal drugs policy following concerns from MPs.

    Amsterdam and Rotterdam have also taken steps to reduce the number of coffee shops close to schools.
    Dutch News

    So imagine a thriving marijuana industry in California. Our interstates would be clogged with folks driving all the way from Iowa, Kansas, and Missouri!


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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Well, one of the reasons the marijuana trade in the Netherlands is so wildly lucrative is because of 'drug tourism.' People flocking across borders to purchase it legally. I'm assuming many of these 'tourists' take their marijuana home with them.

    Dutch News

    So imagine a thriving marijuana industry in California. Our interstates would be clogged with folks driving all the way from Iowa, Kansas, and Missouri!

    And imagine how productive we will all be when our airplane industry is supplanted by the pot industry.

    Yes folks, it will be a blissful paradise; millions will be just sitting around toking and listening to Jimmy Hendrix instead of worrying about how to find a real job. But that will be okay because California and Obama will make it easier to survive without the burdens of worrying how to feed yourself there will be food stamps, or working because unemployment benefits will keep being extended, or paying your mortgage because rich taxpayers will subsidize yours.

    After all, gambling is also a harmless activity. While we are making illegal drugs legal, we should also just legalize gambling! Think how productive we all will be!!!

    Life is so simple if you can only get past life’s REALITIES.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Well, one of the reasons the marijuana trade in the Netherlands is so wildly lucrative is because of 'drug tourism.' People flocking across borders to purchase it legally. I'm assuming many of these 'tourists' take their marijuana home with them.

    Dutch News

    So imagine a thriving marijuana industry in California. Our interstates would be clogged with folks driving all the way from Iowa, Kansas, and Missouri!

    So California gets more income from tourism then. If people are going to be driving back from California with marijuana, then they run the risk of facing the legal ramifications of doing so. Penalties for transporting across state lines are severe. Ideally other states will look at California's model and follow suit and this will be a non issue.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    So California gets more income from tourism then. If people are going to be driving back from California with marijuana, then they run the risk of facing the legal ramifications of doing so. Penalties for transporting across state lines are severe. Ideally other states will look at California's model and follow suit and this will be a non issue.
    Well, I've been trying very hard to get people to look at the models of marijuana legalization around the world... such as the Netherlands. And it seems that the pro-legalization folks can't seem to accept that those models are all rife with problems.


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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Well, I've been trying very hard to get people to look at the models of marijuana legalization around the world... such as the Netherlands. And it seems that the pro-legalization folks can't seem to accept that those models are all rife with problems.


    and prohibition is not rife with problems?

    As I and a couple of others have said, we already have a model, and a framework to build it on.. alcohol laws right here in our own country
    Last edited by marduc; 03-17-09 at 12:24 AM.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're being purposely obtuse.

    Marijuana, thanks to religious conservatives has been demonized.

    This is the sole reason as to why it remains illegal.


    Mostly because people have been fooled into believing that marijuana is more harmful then alcohol or even advil. As I've said many times.


    Show me why marijuana should remain illegal and you'll have proven why alcohol, aspirins and hundreds of other legal substances should be banned and made illegal.

    Your agenda fools nobody. You simply won't.

    Your inconsistency will show the minute you admit to having used alcohol or any other number of perfectly legal substances.
    Wow... I've taken the liberty of breaking down your post into its component parts and I've highlighted every bit of it that is either ad hominem, or completely without basis in fact, or just plain illogical.



    But just for fun, I'll take them on anyway...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're being purposely obtuse.
    Uh, no. I'm asking tough questions and being met with ad hominems such as this, deflections, and poorly thought-out arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Marijuana, thanks to religious conservatives has been demonized.
    The criminalization of marijuana in the U.S. had little or nothing to do with religion or conservatism:

    Restrictions for marijuana started in District of Columbia 1906 and was followed by state laws in other parts of the country in the 1910s and 1920s. The early laws against the cannabis drugs were passed with little public attention. Concern about marijuana was related primarily to the fear that marijuana use would spread, even among whites, as a substitute for the opiates. It is largely believed that the early prohibititive marijuana laws were a racist response to the popularity of the drug among Mexicans. [3] In 1925 United States supported regulation of Indian hemp, Cannabis for use as a drug, in the International Opium Convention[4]. Recommendations from the International Opium Convention inspired the work with The Uniform State Narcotic Act between 1925 and 1932. Harry J. Anslinger become an active person in this process from about 1930.[5] [6]
    Bio of Harry J. Anslinger

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This is the sole reason as to why it remains illegal.
    No, it remains illegal because even the most liberal politicians who study the issue realize it's a hornet's nest.
    Barack Obama stated support for marijuana decriminalization in 2004 but has backed off that position during the 2008 presidential campaign, the Washington Times reported Feb. 1.

    While running for Senate in 2004, Obama told a group of Northwestern University students, "I think we need to rethink and decriminalize our marijuana laws. But I'm not somebody who believes in legalization of marijuana."

    However, Obama joined other Democratic candidates during an Oct. 30 debate is indicating that he opposed marijuana decriminalization.
    Join Together.org

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Mostly because people have been fooled into believing that marijuana is more harmful then alcohol or even advil. As I've said many times.
    Simply not true. You haven't bothered to research your facts. According to polling, most Americans do understand that alcohol and tobacco are more dangerous than marijuana. At the same time, they don't want to legalize it.

    Three Out Of Four Americans Say Booze, Tobacco Pose Greater Risk Than Marijuana

    Washington, DC: Americans rank marijuana as far less dangerous than alcohol or tobacco, according to national poll of 1,109 likely voters by Zogby International and commissioned by The NORML Foundation.

    Forty-seven percent of respondents said they believe that alcohol is the most dangerous recreational drug among the three choices. More than one-quarter of respondents (28 percent) believe tobacco to be the most dangerous. Only one-fifth (20 percent) of Americans say that marijuana is the most dangerous.

    Respondents' rankings were mildly influenced by age. Among Americans age 30 to 49, 51 percent ranked alcohol as the most dangerous drug, compared to only 12 percent for marijuana. Among those age 65 and over, 40 percent said alcohol was most dangerous, compared to 28 percent for pot.
    NORML, Zogby Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Show me why marijuana should remain illegal and you'll have proven why alcohol, aspirins and hundreds of other legal substances should be banned and made illegal.
    Illogical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Your agenda fools nobody. You simply won't.
    If asking tough questions and pointing out errors in your facts or logic represents an 'agenda', then so be it. I simply won't what, btw?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Your inconsistency will show the minute you admit to having used alcohol or any other number of perfectly legal substances.
    What does my use of alcohol or any other legal substances have to do with legalization of marijuana?


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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Moderator's Warning:
    Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?A few things. 1) TD, knock off the hyperpartisan attacking liberals crap. 2) Everyone cease the accusations of trolling. When you do that, you are trolling. This may cause me to act accordingly. 3) Everyone cease the personal attacks.
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Do you think guns kill people? Your FIRST post established that you think marijuana makes people lazy :



    Now. Do you think guns kill people?



    More strawmen, you don't smoke guns. a pathetic try..... care to try again?
    Last edited by ReverendHellh0und; 03-17-09 at 07:32 AM.
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Here's a man touching on the truth. Unlike Zyph who continues to dodge, duck, deflect, but not address.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    As I said, it will help the economy there I believe. Will it "solve it"? Probably not, for likely the same reasons as GottaHurt stated...they'll just find other ways to squander the money.
    Remember TD, the "Five D's" were meant for Dodgeball, not for debating. Your initial question to me was a pointless deflection because I made mention of it in the post I directed towards you. Yes, I think its likely that its not going to "solve" California's issues because of its typical issues. That said, I think it has the possability of helping and I think it should be done whether it actually will help their economy or if it WOULD help their economy but their government ****s it up.

    YOU however still haven't addressed the issue that, barring the potential for the government squandering it which is potentially likely but not garaunteed, it does possess the likely ability to help the economy out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I have to chuckle when I watch liberals rail about finding creative new ways to create jobs and tax revenue by legalizing a drug that turns you into a slobbering moron.
    To quote Reverend "Link to study"? I'd love to see a study that shows ingesting of any marijuana turns you into a "slobbering moron".

    I also take it you're against alcohol since if you hold it to the same standard "ingesting of any alcohol turns you into a beligerent moron". Right?

    Yay! GO CONSERVATIVE! GO PROHIBITION! WOOOO, RESTRICT FREEDOM, REPUBLICAN REPUBLICAN REPUBLICAN WOOO!

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