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Thread: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'd imagine the rules in regards to growing your own weed would be akin to the rules on brewing your own alcohol, ditto for the sales. Ditto for maximum amount of possession.
    How does the law in Portugal sound to you? Reasonable?

    Personal consumption limit is 2.5 gram per day of marijuana[citation needed] and 0.5 gram per day[citation needed] of hashish. One may possess not more than 10 daily doses, otherwise it may be categorized as trafficking. Consumption still has a penalty that may be a fine or other penalty. Cultivation, even if for personal use, is still totally illegal and cultivation of even one plant is assumed to indicate involvement with trafficking. Possession of seeds is also illegal and despite there being several "head shops" or "grow shops" in Portugal, they are not allowed to sell seeds. It is also true that the number of grow shops has increased over the past few years, which seems to indicate that cultivation for personal use (in Portuguese: auto-cultivo) is becoming a more common practice. There is also a forum, named hortadacouve, formed by people who cultivate for personal use.

    It is very common in Portugal to see young people smoking in concerts and other party areas. There has also been, in the last decade, an increase of cafés where it is possible to smoke, although it is never an "open" experience, because there is still a lot of intolerance to public consumption of cannabis as a day to day practice.
    Wikipedia: Legality of Cannabis

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Well, let's suppose for the sake of argument that marijuana were legalized. How would it be done?

    I don't think anyone believes we'd be selling or smoking it at the ballpark next to the beer stand... so fill me in on the details...

    Coffee shops?
    At home only?
    Designated pot smoking centers?
    Home, designated locations, much like businesses need to attain alcohol license to sell alcohol. Bars and nightclubs can possibly have a designated smoking room.

    As far as distribution, states issue to decide, but I would think the liquor store would be the logical venue.

    Would it be okay to drive stoned? If you were just 'slightly buzzed' for instance?
    No, it is not ok to drive stoned, nor is it ok to drive impaired by anything but it also is not ok to drive after drinking, nor should it be for any kind of impairment. How will this be enforced? I don't know. It would have to rely on impairment testing instead of chemical tests such as urine or blood. THC content is present long after the impairment is over. There is a device called EYECHECK that measures the dilations of the pupils in response to flashes of light, I am not entirely sure of its accuracy, but it is purported to be within +/- 3%. This in conjunction with field battery tests should be reliable to make a judgment of impairment, followed by a collaborating blood test perhaps, although this still does not detect THC, just it metabolites, but that could back up the field test indications of impairment and rule out false positives to a degree. Eye movement in response to stimuli is definitely effected while intoxicated by marijuana, the trick is to get it to stick in a jury trial with well seasoned DUI lawyers. Or develop more reliable and comprehensive detection measures, there are also detection devices in the works based on monitoring brain wave activity.


    Would it be okay to be stoned at work? One hit at lunchtime while your buddy has his beer?
    entirely up to the employer, or as safety code would dictate. same rationale for is it ok to have a beer with lunch, or several. A hit is not going to really impair you.



    Could one be arrested for 'stoned in public' similar to a 'public intoxication' for alcohol?
    If you are being disorderly, then a disorderly conduct charge would apply, but as Independant Thinker said, being high does not make you a public nuisance.

    Would the legal age be 21 or 18?
    For the sake of consistency and feasibility to get the laws to fly I would say 21. I do however feel that if you are old enough to sign your life over to the government you should be able to do whatever you damn well please in regards to your body, and putting it at risk.

    Would all forms of pot be legal? Aren't some varieties more potent than others?
    Not really forms per say, just different genetic makeups. Corn is not the only cash crop where there has been extensive manipulating and selecting of genes to get desired traits :P

    For legalization to work there must be NO black market incentive, this means that it will be of the highest quality available, at prices akin to black market low grade marijuana. So yes that means the stuff packing 20-25% THC is available, that just means dosage is lower than the pot checking in at 8% much the same way as you can drink a half gallon of beer, or 1/8th that volume of scotch to attain the same net result.

    Can there be lower grades available at generic prices? sure there can be.
    The motivation for the producer and the vendor to produce the lower quality strains will not be there however, since any and all tax would be based on wieght, as exemplified by Ca's AB 390.

    Marijuana consists of more psychotropic chemicals than just THC there are numerous other cannabinoids which effect you as well. a higher ratio of connabinol for example leads to a more lethargy sedated feeling (lower quality [THC content] weed tends to be higher in this.) So there will be a market for different strains. The ratio of cannabinoids can be tweaked and controlled by genetic makeup, time of harvest, curing technique, and exposure to light and heat as well, so even high grade pot can be tailor made to attain a certain "flavor" of buzz in lieu of low grade mexican schwag.

    So yes, just as there is a market for beer, wine, and scotch as well, there should be a market for different grades of pot as well, but the THC laden selectively bred genotypes will dominate.





    Just curious how you see this working.

    very well thank you

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post



    Yes. Just let me grow my own.
    AMEN to that!!!

    One problem, this would eliminate the governments revenue. Unless pre-germinated sexually differentiated females were sold at exorbitant prices so the state could get their tax money out of the deal (you can clone that female indefinitely ya know).

    The cost for a pampered set up could be prohibitive for many though, so it might not bust sales that much, it is legal to make your own beer, but that is done on a MUCH less widespread basis than I would anticipate at home marijuana cultivation.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    No. These are serious questions. I don't have an agenda. But I do believe that many of those who advocate legalization haven't thought through the details very carefully.
    I have. Trust me. I have.

    I've just perused the marijuana laws of most countries. Wikipedia: Legality of Cannabis

    It's not at all clear that legalizing marijuana would be easy to do.
    It's not clear because you don't want to make it clear. I just answered all your questions without really having to think twice about any double standards or the models of other countries just common sense.

    It's not clear that the answers require simple 'common sense.'
    Ummm yes. It is.

    Under your plan, for instance, would citizens be able to grow their own weed?
    Yep. Same as people who brew their own alcohol.

    Would there be a maximum amount they could possess?
    No. Is there a maximum amount of beer that you can posses? No? Then no.

    Which country's model do you find most appealing?
    None. Total legalization is the only answer for me.

    Is there a 'common sense' answer to that?
    Yes. Marijuana is no more dangerous then alcohol. Nobody has EVER died from smoking marijuana. How many have died from alcohol poisoning? Your attempt to make this seem like a cloudy issue that needs to be thought out before dealt with is see through.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    How does the law in Portugal sound to you? Reasonable?

    Wikipedia: Legality of Cannabis
    Personal consumption limit is 2.5 gram per day of marijuana[citation needed] and 0.5 gram per day[citation needed] of hashish.
    unenforceable.

    How do the laws on alcohol here in the U.S. sound to you, reasonable if extended to marijuana?

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I have. Trust me. I have.


    None. Total legalization is the only answer for me.


    ditto!

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    AMEN to that!!!

    One problem, this would eliminate the governments revenue. Unless pre-germinated sexually differentiated females were sold at exorbitant prices so the state could get their tax money out of the deal (you can clone that female indefinitely ya know).

    The cost for a pampered set up could be prohibitive for many though, so it might not bust sales that much, it is legal to make your own beer, but that is done on a MUCH less widespread basis than I would anticipate at home marijuana cultivation.
    They could do something like they did when cassette tapes came out and people recorded songs off of the radio. Blank tape tax.

    Papers tax. Hydroponics tax. Pipe tax. Bong tax. Hitterbox tax. Smoking lounges tax/license fees etc.

    Or they could do like they initially did. Make it illegal without a tax stamp. Charge for tax stamp.
    ?
    ?
    Profit.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    I want weed shops in every corner.

    I want 'Kiss Me, I Smoke Weed' t-shirts.

    I want a national holiday dedicated to weed smoking.

    I want little old ladies smoking weed.

    I want songs dedicated explicitly to weed to be #1 on the Billboard charts.

    I want Bob Marley to be made the Patron Saint of Cannabis by the Catholic Church.

    I want presidential candidates walking into weed shops and sitting down with everyday American weed smokers and talking about how great weed was in the 60s and 70s.

    I want weed to be included in the essential food groups.

    Now tell me how our society hasn't already done this with alcohol and why it's easier to do it with a beer glass in your hand then with a joint.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    This is really interesting. Do any of you who support legalization have a single country that serves as a model for what you'd like to implement in the U.S.??


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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002 View Post
    They could do something like they did when cassette tapes came out and people recorded songs off of the radio. Blank tape tax.

    Papers tax. Hydroponics tax. Pipe tax. Bong tax. Hitterbox tax. Smoking lounges tax/license fees etc.

    Or they could do like they initially did. Make it illegal without a tax stamp. Charge for tax stamp.
    ?
    ?
    Profit.
    I thought about that when I was posting, hydroponics tax would adversely effect a lot of tomato and basil grows though.

    Tightly reign in the breeding program, charge a hefty tax for the latest greatest must have genetics? If you want in on the latest and greatest pay dearly for it, make it illegal to distribute clones to friends and peers? I am not sure I like that last idea, or any of it for that matter, but I am sure there will be some controls in place to discourage home growing, it is too easy to grow, and too many people have dreamed of doing it for too long (a few have at one point in time acted upon it though).

    For public consumption venues, yes a hefty licensing fee.

    paraphernalia tax is ineffectual to, there are too many people well versed in bong making/glass blowing ect. out there who have been doing it under the radar for ages.

    I kind of like the tax stamp for the grow, but how does it get enforced, and how do we insure it is not a corrupted scam with no real stamps to be had like other ploys.

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