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Thread: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

  1. #131
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    A situation I was quite familiar with as a teenager. we can argue back and forth on this, but yes, marijuana is easier to get than beer for a kid:

    A 2002 drug survey by the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University revealed that schoolchildren across the country say it is easier for them to buy marijuana than it is to buy beer and cigarettes.(10) How can that be?

    The answer is really not very complicated. When I first worked undercover, I was hanging out with about 20 kids in front of a bowling alley at a suburban strip-mall. They were not criminals... "They were not selling drugs they were simply accommodating friends."... No profit was made on the transactions. Most probably didn't even earn enough to pay for their gas...

    None of them were 21 years old but they could and did sell me any kind of illegal drugs you can name. However, they often came up to me and said, "Hey Jack, we're thirsty - will you go into the liquor store and buy us some beer? We can't buy beer." They could get all the illegal drugs they wanted but couldn't buy beer. How can that be?

    The answer is so simple that it has apparently never occurred to our drug czars. Beer and cigarettes are legal commodities and the people who sell them are licensed to do so. Selling those drugs is the way they make their livelihood and they will do whatever they can to protect those licenses.

    Source:LEAP - Publications Publications - Jack Cole End Prohibition Now!

  2. #132
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    No I don't think they were doing Zogby polls then I was referring to what would happen in present day, and I know prohibition is all that we have to go by. The whole premise (what if alcohol were illegal) is supposition, so it is kind of unrealistic to back up supposition with fact.
    We would see something similar. Instead of 6 or 7 bars and 4 restaurants with bars in a town, you'd have 3 or 4 speakeasies. It would be less available because of it's illegality.

    There is no issue with availability of marijuana.
    Good, go over to the local supermarket and pick up some. Oh, wait...

    If it were legal, it would be more available because of it's legality.

    See above regarding supply/availability.
    See above regarding supply/availability.

    Kids are doing it regardless of its legality, part of its charm for many is that it is an expression of a tendency to be rebellious when a teenager.
    Plain and simple.. if a kid wants it he can get it, the legality is not a deterrent, we have a 34 year old "War On Drugs" that is an abject failure, and has not stopped kids from getting it. I will grant you that for a few it is a deterrent, but for many it is not, in fact its illegality is part of its appeal, that was certainly the case for me and I can attest likewise for many of my peers at the time, you know rebellious teenage years and all.
    Far fewer kids use marijuana then use alcohol. Legality is one reason. Make it legal and it will be more socially acceptable and more available, therefore some of those "cusp" kids will be more apt to use it.

    And since both are/would be illegal for kids, legality is irrelevant. Availability is the issue. If it is legal, it will be around and in the open more often.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    A situation I was quite familiar with as a teenager. we can argue back and forth on this, but yes, marijuana is easier to get than beer for a kid:




    Source:LEAP - Publications Publications - Jack Cole End Prohibition Now!
    I'll see that and raise you this:

    Alcohol use among adolescents is a prominent health problem. Adolescents use alcohol more frequently than all other drugs combined. According to a survey conducted in 2002, 19.6% of 8th graders, 35.4% of 10th graders, and 48.6% of 12th graders report using alcohol in the preceding 30 days. Furthermore, 78% of high school seniors report having tried alcohol at least once. Additionally, 6.7%, 18.3%, and 30.3% of 8th, 10th, and 12th graders, respectively, reported having been drunk in the preceding 30 days. In 1999, 20% of all alcoholic beverages purchased were consumed by underage drinkers

    According to the 2004 Monitoring the Future Survey, approximately 46% of 12th graders reported using marijuana at some point in their lives, while 21% reported using marijuana in the past month. Thirty-five percent of 10th graders and 16% of 8th graders reported using marijuana at least one time, and 16% of 10th graders and 6% of 8th graders reported marijuana use in the past month. The study found a slight decrease in use compared to prevalence in 2003 and a statistically significant decrease compared to peak levels of use in 1996.

    http://www.bu.edu/atssa/Resources/Pu...s_of_Abuse.pdf
    78% alcohol vs. 46% marijuana. I win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post



    Good, go over to the local supermarket and pick up some. Oh, wait...

    If it were legal, it would be more available because of it's legality.
    Not necessarily. If you were to require a license for production/distrubution and limit the amount of licenses doled out, it would be less available. You would have to ensure to not regulate it so much so that drug dealers could sell it for cheaper prices, but that really wouldn't be difficult.

  5. #135
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    We would see something similar. Instead of 6 or 7 bars and 4 restaurants with bars in a town, you'd have 3 or 4 speakeasies. It would be less available because of it's illegality.

    And those 3 or 4 speakeasies would have no qualms selling it to someone that was under 21, whereas the 6 or 7 bars and 4 restaurants do.

    Good, go over to the local supermarket and pick up some. Oh, wait...

    If it were legal, it would be more available because of it's legality.
    No need to I have a phone and any one of numerous numbers I could call despite not using it for well over a year, most of them would still be up, supermarket is closed If I REALLY wanted to I could drive down to Robbles Park and get swarmed by 14 year old kids with handfuls of dime bags too. nevermind that it is 3 am.

    See above regarding supply/availability.
    in reference to what I had quoted you on when you were using prohibition availability as part of your argument immediately prior to saying supply did not matter.


    Far fewer kids use marijuana then use alcohol. Legality is one reason. Make it legal and it will be more socially acceptable and more available, therefore some of those "cusp" kids will be more apt to use it.
    I will give you Alcohol use is higher among teenagers, as it is with our population as a whole, this will not change it is our preferred drug of choice. Many people simply do not like the feeling of being high, others do not like the idea of inhaling smoke.

    here another tidbit:
    One of the ironies of the drug war is that where it was been waged most loudly and enthusiastically is precisely the place where teen drug use is now most entrenched. Conversely where drug war rhetoric is comparatively mute, teen usage of illicit drugs is much lower. In the Netherlands, for example, which has the most liberal drug policy in Europe and where marijuana is effectively legal, marijuana use among teens is actually lower than in the United States. The survey found 28% of Dutch teens smoked marijuana as compared with 41% of American teens, and 23% of American teens had experimented with other illicit drugs as compared with only 6% of European teens.

    But when it comes to legal drugs, such as cigarettes and alcohol, teen usage is much higher in Europe. Thirty-seven percent of European teens had smoked cigarettes in the past month as compared with only 26% of Americans. Sixty-one percent of European teens had consumed alcohol as compared with only 40% of Americans.

    When asked about the disparity, Kevin Zeese of Common Sense for Drug Policy pointed to the lure of the forbidden as a major factor. "It is worth pointing out that the Dutch, when they made marijuana available for purchase, said one reason they were doing so was to 'make marijuana boring,'" Zeese told DRCNet.

    "Our approach, making marijuana a forbidden fruit where the primary educators on the topic are DARE police officers, has the opposite effect. We make marijuana a magnet for the natural rebellious period of the teen years," Zeese explained. "The laws are easy to break, highlighted in ads and schools, the schools lie about the dangers of marijuana and police are the messengers -- that all adds up to a recipe for encouraging, rather than discouraging teen use. Then, our failure to separate the marijuana market from other illegal drug markets makes it natural to purchase other drugs from the high school dealer.
    European Study of Teen Drug Use Suggests Impact of Drug Policy is: (A) Paradoxical (B) Irrelevant


    And since both are/would be illegal for kids, legality is irrelevant. Availability is the issue. If it is legal, it will be around and in the open more often.
    I agree legality is irrelevant for kids, it is illegal either way, but you are using legality as your argument still, and there you go saying availability is the issue again
    Last edited by marduc; 03-15-09 at 04:21 AM.

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    We would see something similar.

    Far fewer kids use marijuana then use alcohol. Legality is one reason. Make it legal and it will be more socially acceptable and more available, therefore some of those "cusp" kids will be more apt to use it.

    Marijuana is already glorified in movies like Harold and Kumar go to White Castle and Road Trip, even more so than alcohol, so for kids it is already "socially acceptable". But in the event of legalization, California could enforce a special tax for marijuana and use its profits to launch a new anti-drug program, making aware the effects of marijuana.

    And you know how everyone tags marijuana as "the gateway drug?" It is a gateway drug, but that is because in order to attain it you need to be involved in illicit activity. Activity that is much worse than alcohol, unless kids were to be buying from moonshiners(have to be some really dumb kids). The same sketchy drug dealer in the back of the park likely sells other drugs, and will try to sell those drugs to you.

    Not to mention that with government regulation, marijuana that is laced with much more dangerous drugs or kept in heinous conditions(smugglers sometimes keep marijuana in washing fluid to hide the scent) would be diminished.

  7. #137
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    Marijuana is already glorified in movies like Harold and Kumar go to White Castle and Road Trip, even more so than alcohol, so for kids it is already "socially acceptable".

    This is very true.

  8. #138
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    And you know how everyone tags marijuana as "the gateway drug?" It is a gateway drug, but that is because in order to attain it you need to be involved in illicit activity. Activity that is much worse than alcohol, unless kids were to be buying from moonshiners(have to be some really dumb kids). The same sketchy drug dealer in the back of the park likely sells other drugs, and will try to sell those drugs to you.
    This is very true.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #139
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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tubub View Post
    Not necessarily. If you were to require a license for production/distrubution and limit the amount of licenses doled out, it would be less available. You would have to ensure to not regulate it so much so that drug dealers could sell it for cheaper prices, but that really wouldn't be difficult.
    Can't move the goalposts. If we are comparing it to alcohol, the parameters must match. Those that you identified above, don't.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Can Marijuana Help Rescue California's Economy?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Can't move the goalposts. If we are comparing it to alcohol, the parameters must match. Those that you identified above, don't.
    Both cigerettes and alcohol are drugs. Yet different rules and regulations exist for each(Must be 21 to drink alcohol vs. 18 to smoke, cannot drink and drive vs. no law against smoking and driving, can drink inside but cannot smoke inside ect. ect) because they are different drugs.

    I didn't really get what you meant by saying I wasn't staying in the boundaries... you need an alcohol license to produce and distribute alcohol, so aren't I staying in the parameters?

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