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Obama: Economic crisis 'not as bad as we think'

ludahai said:
Nothing like that of course. However, interesting that he was talking down the economy as a candidate and while the economy is WORSE now, he is telling us it isn't so bad. While I am doing fine, I have a lot of friends who are not doing well on both sides of the Pacific. Tell THEM the economy isn't so bad.
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The economy sucks major moose meat, that's how bad it's doing. The only thing holding up the stock market is magic. Which means nothing's holding it up.

Obama is lying his ass off because if he spoke the truth, people would understand that he's too ignorant to fix it. Since he's doing everything he can to make it worse, it's not going to get better, and that's a fact.
 
BulletWounD said:
The economy will recover. All he needs to do is step back and leave it alone! In the meantime, he can work on CUTTING spending and then when we're in better shape he can start CUTTING taxes. But why should we do that? DEBT IS WEALTH! :doh
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I totally agree - though targeted infusions to free up the credit markets would help. Unfortunately, all of this "stimulus" is treating the SYMPTOMS of the problem, but not the CAUSE of the financial disease.
 
ludahai said:
I totally agree - though targeted infusions to free up the credit markets would help. Unfortunately, all of this "stimulus" is treating the SYMPTOMS of the problem, but not the CAUSE of the financial disease.
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Well, you can't expect crack addicts to step up and say their addiction is killing them until they're almost dead, and you can't expect socialists to admit socialism is killing everyone else until they're all dead.

That's just the way the world works.
 
ludahai said:
I totally agree - though targeted infusions to free up the credit markets would help. Unfortunately, all of this "stimulus" is treating the SYMPTOMS of the problem, but not the CAUSE of the financial disease.
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If we're going to spend money at all, we should be using it to help people pay for their mortgages. Everybody wins from this arragement. But nooooooo, that's not an election winner. Then people will get "mad at him" for helping their neighbors pay off their mortgages while they're making payments on their mortgages. This is understandable, but its not like people are doing anything to help their neighbors who need help, it's always "It's not myyyyy responsibility." "MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME"
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
No. I didn't vote for Obama. No way can I look like a fool.
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.....

It's one thing to use teleprompters for major speeches, quite another to have to rely on them for basic day-to-day speaking.
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Exaggeration.
What is it, he can't keep track of his own ideas, or he can't keep track of what his masters tell him his ideas are supposed to be?
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What are you talking about? His masters? You cannot even begin to validate that argument.
You people made fun of Rove controlling Bush...who the hell is feeding the Obama-puppet his lines?
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Please provide me a quote where I "made fun of Rover controlling Bush". Please do.
If he can't deliver speeches without a teleprompter, he's not articulate.
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What does it matter? He's either going to read it off of a teleprompter, or off of paper.. why does there have to be so much ****ing commotion on what he is reading his address off of?

BulletWounD said:
I'm sorry. Could you explain to me how "we're all" responsible? I, for one, would laugh when I heard those advertisements "0-down adjustable rate mortgage! No credit? NO PROBLEM! No job? NO PROBLEM! No assets? NO PROBLEM!"
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Of course I was overacting a bit. But how this economy works, if someone is getting screwed and you know that this someone is getting screwed, and the screwing of this someone is going to effect the entire system, then it is your responsibility to politely remind them that they are ****ing it up for the rest of us; smoking and fitness ads come to mind.
 
BulletWounD said:
If we're going to spend money at all, we should be using it to help people pay for their mortgages. Everybody wins from this arragement. But nooooooo, that's not an election winner. Then people will get "mad at him" for helping their neighbors pay off their mortgages while they're making payments on their mortgages. This is understandable, but its not like people are doing anything to help their neighbors who need help, it's always "It's not myyyyy responsibility." "MEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMEME"
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Paying off other peoples mistakes by taking more from those who were responsible is immoral.
 
MrVicchio said:
Paying off other peoples mistakes by taking more from those who were responsible is immoral.
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Tell me about it. I am sick of being made to take the hit for decisions made by those both above and below me in the economic ladder (I am solidly middle-class) that resulted in this mess.
 
MrVicchio said:
Paying off other peoples mistakes by taking more from those who were responsible is immoral.
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I agree with you, but look what we're doing now. We're taking money away from responsible people and giving it to irresponsible financiers and buying out failed businesses. They're just foreclosing on people anyway. Freedom is a two-sided coin. Yes, you have to be responsible for your actions but at the same time you have to be willing to help others when they need it. PEOPLE ARE SHOWING THEMSELVES COMPLETELY UNWILLING TO VOLUNTARILY HELP OTHERS. You want to know what the root of the financial crisis is? It's not Alan Greenspan or cheap mortgages... IT'S GREED! People got greedy and bought houses they couldn't afford. Brokers got greedy and sold it to em for an extra buck. Banks got greedy and bought these ridiculously overvalued assets. There's greed EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. If we want to solve the problems facing this country, we HAVE to erase the culturally embedded greed. This dog-eat-dog, not-my-problem, doesn't-affect-me attitude is killing us! It's nothing we can change from the top, as Obama seeks to do. This has always failed and will always fail. As always, the change must come from the bottom and it starts with you and I.
 
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BulletWounD said:
I agree with you, but look what we're doing now. We're taking money away from responsible people and giving it to irresponsible financiers and buying out failed businesses. They're just foreclosing on people anyway. Freedom is a two-sided coin. Yes, you have to be responsible for your actions but at the same time you have to be willing to help others when they need it. PEOPLE ARE SHOWING THEMSELVES COMPLETELY UNWILLING TO VOLUNTARILY HELP OTHERS. You want to know what the root of the financial crisis is? It's not Alan Greenspan or cheap mortgages... IT'S GREED! People got greedy and bought houses they couldn't afford. Brokers got greedy and sold it to em for an extra buck. Banks got greedy and bought these ridiculously overvalued assets. There's greed EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. If we want to solve the problems facing this country, we HAVE to erase the culturally embedded greed. This dog-eat-dog, not-my-problem, doesn't-affect-me attitude is killing us! It's nothing we can change from the top, as Obama seeks to do. This has always failed and will always fail. As always, the change must come from the bottom and it starts with you and I.
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on greed: You do know what Adam Smith's invisible hand is, right?

So the money that is taken away from the responsible, by the irresponsible government is a greedy step, yet we have to be responsible enough to help others in need? Seems like you've got some problems in your post.
If all the steps contain greed, then the responsible are also greedy.
 
Arch Enemy said:
on greed: You do know what Adam Smith's invisible hand is, right?

So the money that is taken away from the responsible, by the irresponsible government is a greedy step, yet we have to be responsible enough to help others in need? Seems like you've got some problems in your post.
If all the steps contain greed, then the responsible are also greedy.
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I didn't say I thought it was OK to take money from people. At least that's not what I meant. I'm saying since Obama is so intent on taking money from people anyway, I'd rather it be going to pay off mortgages. I think there's a better way and that's to encourage people to give voluntarily. Lassez-faire economics without voluntary giving would create a pretty ****ty world. Wouldn't you agree? This is why libertarians traditionally emphasize charity in replacement of social programs. They preach it, they just don't practice it.

And yes, one can be responsible for himself but yet fail to be responsible to his community. It IS our responsibility to help our community but the help must be voluntary otherwise it's meaningless.
 
Arch Enemy said:
on greed: You do know what Adam Smith's invisible hand is, right?

So the money that is taken away from the responsible, by the irresponsible government is a greedy step, yet we have to be responsible enough to help others in need? Seems like you've got some problems in your post.
If all the steps contain greed, then the responsible are also greedy.
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I work hard, make responsible investments, and take care of my family. How does that make me greedy? I think my situation describes the vast majority of the Middle Class on both sides of the Pacific.
 
ludahai said:
I work hard, make responsible investments, and take care of my family. How does that make me greedy? I think my situation describes the vast majority of the Middle Class on both sides of the Pacific.
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I was just making an observation on the guy's post.

However, if you are a human then I do think that you have greedy tendencies, but probably not on same scale as the rich.
 
ludahai said:
I work hard, make responsible investments, and take care of my family. How does that make me greedy? I think my situation describes the vast majority of the Middle Class on both sides of the Pacific.
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The only greedy people are the socialists who see what they haven't earned and use the violent might of government to compel those that have what they haven't earned to hand it over.

People who own businesses and run them for profit, people who have jobs, they're the victims of the greedy socialists that have done so much damage to our economy.
 
BulletWounD said:
PEOPLE ARE SHOWING THEMSELVES COMPLETELY UNWILLING TO VOLUNTARILY HELP OTHERS.
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So? You care about them? Use your own money.

BulletWounD said:
You want to know what the root of the financial crisis is?
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Socialism.

Breaking the Constitution.

That's the root cause.

BulletWounD said:
If we want to solve the problems facing this country, we HAVE to erase the culturally embedded greed.
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Nah. All we have to do is disband the truly stupid and immoral notion that the federal government, using taxpayer dollars, will bail out people and companies that can't pay their debts.

The market will do the rest....using "GREED" as the leveling tool.

What do you people have against a basic human driving force that has done so much good in human history?

BulletWounD said:
This dog-eat-dog, not-my-problem, doesn't-affect-me attitude is killing us! It's nothing we can change from the top, as Obama seeks to do. This has always failed and will always fail. As always, the change must come from the bottom and it starts with you and I.
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Okay, you start using your own money to finance your projects and stop taking mine. I'm easy.
 
There's a difference between healthy desire and greed.

“Justice [the human virtue of not harming others]…is the main pillar that supports the whole building. If justice is removed, the great fabric of human society which seems to have been under the darling care of Nature must in a moment crumble into atoms….Men, though naturally sympathetic, feel so little for others with whom they have no particular connection in comparison to what they feel for themselves. The misery of one who is merely their fellow creature is of so little importance to them in comparison to even a small convenience of their own. They have it so much in their power to hurt him and may have so many temptations to do so that if the principle of justice did not stand up within them in his defense and overawe them into a respect for his innocence, they would like wild beasts be ready to fly upon him at all times. Under such circumstances a man would enter an assembly of others as he enters a den of lions.” -Adam Freakin' Smith
 
Scarecrow Akhbar said:
So? You care about them? Use your own money.
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I can't believe I'm going to have to say this again. One more time, IM NOT SAYING ITS OK TO TAKE PEOPLES MONEY.


Socialism.

Breaking the Constitution.

That's the root cause.
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Back that up with facts, please.

Nah. All we have to do is disband the truly stupid and immoral notion that the federal government, using taxpayer dollars, will bail out people and companies that can't pay their debts.
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The market will do the rest....using "GREED" as the leveling tool.
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Yeah, yeah. Greed is a virtue. I know. Just keep saying it and it'll make it true.

What do you people have against a basic human driving force that has done so much good in human history?

Okay, you start using your own money to finance your projects and stop taking mine. I'm easy.
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Yeah. I'm taking your money. Get real. I'm a libertarian.
 
God I love seeing the Ultra-Anti-Obama crowd feed on itself.

:boxer:beat:hammer::gunner::blastem:
 
BulletWounD said:
I didn't say I thought it was OK to take money from people. At least that's not what I meant. I'm saying since Obama is so intent on taking money from people anyway, I'd rather it be going to pay off mortgages. I think there's a better way and that's to encourage people to give voluntarily. Lassez-faire economics without voluntary giving would create a pretty ****ty world. Wouldn't you agree? This is why libertarians traditionally emphasize charity in replacement of social programs. They preach it, they just don't practice it.

And yes, one can be responsible for himself but yet fail to be responsible to his community. It IS our responsibility to help our community but the help must be voluntary otherwise it's meaningless.
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Actually American's are traditionally a very giving people, they just prefer whom to give or not to give too, and that's the problem that liberals have. People might choose to help the "wrong" group or choose to "not help others". Thus they see it as their moral right to take money (taxes) and give it to those they feel need it because the average person obviously would choose wrong.
 
Arch Enemy said:
I just don't understand what good would come from Obama saying "we're soooooooooooo ****ed.
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Then WHY did he say exactly that?

On the bright side you can rob an Obama supporter and 3 weeks later they will forget you did.
 
MrVicchio said:
Actually American's are traditionally a very giving people, they just prefer whom to give or not to give too, and that's the problem that liberals have. People might choose to help the "wrong" group or choose to "not help others". Thus they see it as their moral right to take money (taxes) and give it to those they feel need it because the average person obviously would choose wrong.
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Right. I think people naturally seek to give to others. It's quite satisfying. Even the most fabulously wealthy usually discover this at some point before they die. I know a woman who dedicated her whole life to helping the homeless, even to her own personal detriment (she lived in a one room apartment herself). I've got to say, I've never met a happier person in my life.

The left seems to think that anybody who doesn't support the welfare state is some sort of social darwinist, which isn't true at all. We're just opposed to forcing one person to cede his money to another. There's a key difference in my mind between giving and taking by force. Giving builds a sense of community. Taking builds a sense of entitlement and animosity and, at least in my mind, leads to the "screw you" way of thinking.
 
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BulletWounD said:
The left seems to think that anybody who doesn't support the welfare state is some sort of social darwinist, which isn't true at all.
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The left generally goes out of their way to portray welfare recipients as downtrodden victims. And I have no doubt that's true in quite a few unfortunate cases.

I've got a good social project for those on the left. Sit down for two weeks straight and watch every episode of Judge Judy or People's Court. After witnessing the parade of dunces, cheats, liars, ignoramuses, and downright criminals on these programs... you may quickly begin to believe that what most of these people need is not a helping hand... but rather, a good kick in the arse.

6a00d83451c83e69e20105365ca401970c-800wi


:2wave:
 
Grateful Heart said:
The left generally goes out of their way to portray welfare recipients as downtrodden victims. And I have no doubt that's true in quite a few unfortunate cases.

I've got a good social project for those on the left. Sit down for two weeks straight and watch every episode of Judge Judy or People's Court. After witnessing the parade of dunces, cheats, liars, ignoramuses, and downright criminals on these programs... you may quickly begin to believe that what most of these people need is not a helping hand... but rather, a good kick in the arse.
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Actually, a lot of them need a little of both.

We can give them helping hands by providing universal health care, improving inner-city education via vouchers and merit pay, expanding unemployment benefits during the current recession, and expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit.

We can give them a good kick in the arse by putting more police on the ground in high-crime areas and ending the war on drugs.

If we were to do ALL of these things simultaneously, it would be the best cure for poverty which the government could offer.
 
Grateful Heart said:
The left generally goes out of their way to portray welfare recipients as downtrodden victims. And I have no doubt that's true in quite a few unfortunate cases.

I've got a good social project for those on the left. Sit down for two weeks straight and watch every episode of Judge Judy or People's Court. After witnessing the parade of dunces, cheats, liars, ignoramuses, and downright criminals on these programs... you may quickly begin to believe that what most of these people need is not a helping hand... but rather, a good kick in the arse.

6a00d83451c83e69e20105365ca401970c-800wi


:2wave:
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My/// ex was on Judge Judy a month or so ago... suing her ex finance.... it was funny as **** to watch.
 
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