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Thread: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

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    Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    "What's important is that we measure and compare actual value — not just how much we spend on health care, but the performance we get back in return," said H. Edward Hanway, CEO of the insurance company Cigna. "That's what this study does, and the results are quite eye-opening."

    Higher U.S. spending funnels away resources that could be invested elsewhere in the economy, but fails to deliver a healthier work force, the report said.

    "Spending more would not be a problem if our health scores were proportionately higher," Dr. Arnold Milstein, one of the authors of the study, said in an interview. "But what this study shows is that the U.S. is not getting higher levels of health and quality of care."
    source

    This sounds like typical liberal propaganda, but what's interesting to me about this study is that it's from " Business Roundtable, which represents CEOs of major companies".

    Another good tidbit:
    The United States is 23 points behind five leading economic competitors: Canada, Japan, Germany, the United Kingdom and France. The five nations cover all their citizens, and though their systems differ, in each country the government plays a much larger role than in the U.S.

    The cost-benefit disparity is even wider — 46 points — when the U.S. is compared with emerging competitors: China, Brazil and India.
    CEO's of insurance companies pointing to government run healthcare systems as more efficient than our own? What's the world coming to?

    There could be much to debate here. Is their value index meaningful for example?

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    Re: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadian View Post
    source

    This sounds like typical liberal propaganda, but what's interesting to me about this study is that it's from " Business Roundtable, which represents CEOs of major companies".

    Another good tidbit:


    CEO's of insurance companies pointing to government run healthcare systems as more efficient than our own? What's the world coming to?

    There could be much to debate here. Is their value index meaningful for example?
    That's pretty much exactly the result I'd expect.

    If your country spends $10,000 on treatment to extend the life of a 95 year old man with lung cancer by 3 months, you aren't getting much value.

    If your country's health care system is run by the government, which decides that such an expenditure is not cost effective, then the $10,000 will be spent on something that is somewhat more valuable, like an artificial limb for an amputee.

    If your country's health care system is still developing, then it will probably only be able to spend that $10,000 on more basic treatments which inherently have a greater return on investment.
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    Re: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    The CEO's of major companies WANT nationalized health care. It lets them escape paying for employee health care, and they have enough money to get quality care no matter how badly the socialists screw up the coming Peon-Care system.

    That's all.

    The best thing to do is get the government out of the health care business completely, since it's in violation of Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution.

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    Re: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadian View Post
    source

    This sounds like typical liberal propaganda, but what's interesting to me about this study is that it's from " Business Roundtable, which represents CEOs of major companies".

    Another good tidbit:


    CEO's of insurance companies pointing to government run healthcare systems as more efficient than our own? What's the world coming to?

    There could be much to debate here. Is their value index meaningful for example?
    The problem with government health care is that it will slow access to services by allowing everyone to get care at no cost to them.

    They are currently more efficient in cost only. They are not more efficient in time to services rendered.

    You ever notice how no one says to deregulate the insurance industry with removals of mandatory coverages for people who don't need it.
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    Re: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    The problem with government health care is that it will slow access to services by allowing everyone to get care at no cost to them.
    And yet they can always pay for quicker service if they can and want.. that is unless you go by the Cuban version of UHC, which seems to be the only version American's (on the right) think off when they hear UHC.

    Is the access in a UHC slower than in a private run system? Sure in theory and probably in practice also, however there is always the private alternative in the UHC system if you want (unless you are in a communist nation of course). There aint no alternative in a private run system where not everyone is covered. If you dont have health insurance, then you are screwed if you get cancer for example, plus it is damn expensive for the state when they come into emergency rooms and are dieing.

    The question is, what would you rather have.. a system where a person with no insurance gets a death sentence when he or she gets cancer because he or she cant afford treatment, or a system where said person has to wait a bit of time (yes maybe too much time) and possibly get cured or prolonged life?

    They are currently more efficient in cost only. They are not more efficient in time to services rendered.
    What do you exactly mean by that comment? And what do you base it on?

    Are you saying that the government bean counters are any different than the HMO bean counters? I would in fact claim that the government bean counters are preferable to HMO bean counters purely based on the fact that the HMO wants a profit and the government does not.

    You ever notice how no one says to deregulate the insurance industry with removals of mandatory coverages for people who don't need it.
    Because it is stupid, moronic and idiotic. By removing "mandatory coverage for people who dont need it" you only INCREASE the cost for the state, because there are big chances that at some point they WILL need the coverage and hence wont have it, and guess who will be fitting the bill from the emergency room visits?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    I would in fact claim that the government bean counters are preferable to HMO bean counters purely based on the fact that the HMO wants a profit and the government does not.
    This isn't your best argument.
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    Re: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And yet they can always pay for quicker service if they can and want.. that is unless you go by the Cuban version of UHC, which seems to be the only version American's (on the right) think off when they hear UHC.

    Is the access in a UHC slower than in a private run system? Sure in theory and probably in practice also, however there is always the private alternative in the UHC system if you want (unless you are in a communist nation of course). There aint no alternative in a private run system where not everyone is covered. If you dont have health insurance, then you are screwed if you get cancer for example, plus it is damn expensive for the state when they come into emergency rooms and are dieing.
    It is nearly always slower than the private market.

    Private run system has more than 2 options. It is far superior because of choices.

    I have never seen the mob of dieing people swarming in to emergency rooms must have missed the news flash.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The question is, what would you rather have.. a system where a person with no insurance gets a death sentence when he or she gets cancer because he or she cant afford treatment, or a system where said person has to wait a bit of time (yes maybe too much time) and possibly get cured or prolonged life?
    Pretty much everyone can afford health insurance they just choose not to buy it.

    It's not my problem that they fail to plan.

    The cheapest family insurance coverage in my state for Blue Cross Blue Shield Blue Value plan 10000 starts at $126.56 and the maximum is $339.76. That is per month.

    Saying people can't afford it is a lie. They choose cable and satellite tv, fast food, more expensive cars, and other luxuries over their health. Let them eat it.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What do you exactly mean by that comment? And what do you base it on?

    Are you saying that the government bean counters are any different than the HMO bean counters? I would in fact claim that the government bean counters are preferable to HMO bean counters purely based on the fact that the HMO wants a profit and the government does not.
    There is no reward for government to render services faster.

    Not only that but you have limited resources like doctors, hospitals, clinics and combine that with nearly 300 million possible patients.

    The outcome is overcrowding.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Because it is stupid, moronic and idiotic. By removing "mandatory coverage for people who dont need it" you only INCREASE the cost for the state, because there are big chances that at some point they WILL need the coverage and hence wont have it, and guess who will be fitting the bill from the emergency room visits?
    Why should 50-60 year old women have pregnancy coverage, that makes no sense.

    Not only that but since when do voluntary choices like pregnancy qualify as a sickness?

    To much regulation eliminates a la cart insurance coverage much like car insurance coverage.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    But Harry,

    Those people buying big cars, cable and fast food... they forgo insurance... and they do it for their CHILDREN too. What about the masses of helpless children denied proper care because of greedy parents!!!??!?!?!


    /TinC
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    But Harry,

    Those people buying big cars, cable and fast food... they forgo insurance... and they do it for their CHILDREN too. What about the masses of helpless children denied proper care because of greedy parents!!!??!?!?!


    /TinC
    I hope your not for serious?!?!?

    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Report: US on short end of health care 'value gap'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I hope your not for serious?!?!?

    /TinC

    Tongue in Cheek my friend, Tongue in Cheek.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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