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Gunman shot by police after massacre in Germany

Then i die and get raped.
That scenario is .... rare to say the least
True, this is a very rare scenario, which means little if you are on the bad side of the statistic. I have a friend here who fortunately wasn't hurt, but was visiting family in the Honduras and their family was held hostage by armed robbers posing as police, they were fleeing authorities and needed a hideout, they took family possessions and fortunately were happy with just property, but no one of the fifteen were willing to step up on defense because of two factors, that of injury or getting a family member injured. While these things are statistically rare it isn't much comfort if it happens to you.



As do i hence why i do boxing and i learn wing chun - A form of martial arts.
Wing Chun, excellent form of martial arts, Boxing is terriffic as well.
 
Good question. I find the best way is to educate people about what guns, how they work, and how to safely own/handle/use them, also in that is taking someone out shooting, all of those things take the "demon" aspect out of the gun.

How can you teach teens to respect the weapon they are holding in their hands? It's beyond difficult. It would be difficult to make it accepted in society.

Fair enough. I would advocate that you do some independent research on the subject just for kicks, I would speculate that you would become not so much an advocate for firearms, but would distrust the people responsible for stories like this more than the weaponry.

BBC News | UK | Handgun crime 'up' despite ban
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2409817.ece
British attitudes are supercilious and misguided

Despite the recent spate of shootings on our streets, we pride ourselves on our strict gun laws. Every time an American gunman goes on a killing spree, we shake our heads in righteous disbelief at our poor benighted colonial cousins. Why is it, even after the Virginia Tech massacre, that Americans still resist calls for more gun controls?

Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”

Ouch, that just took out the main bulk of my arguement lol

Wayy ahead of you, i'm going down a range in a few weeks time to see it for myself. My brother is taking me =]
 
The point being made, you said 1 male, the scenario was ridiculous. It's not ridiculous, it occurs more frequently than we as a civilized nation would like.

I also said it was rare.

You don't see this happening everyday do you?
 
Hey, you may want mental and criminals being able to get guns legally but i do not want that.

Nice strawman, you build that yourself?


Yeah because i heard the Govt. had it in for us ...

This whole idea of a tiny little metal would prevent tyranny is ridiculous - but i understand where it first came from - I would have wanted weapons if i fought the British for independence. But 200 years on, you don't think you are being the slightest bit paranoid?


oh I don't know, what is your concern again in Dafur? Imagine if the oppressed were armed.
 
oh I don't know, what is your concern again in Dafur? Imagine if the oppressed were armed.

Are you bringing in a genocide?

It wouldn't make a difference, the opressors is backed by a superpower.
 
Wing Chun, excellent form of martial arts, Boxing is terriffic as well.

It takes alot of energy out of you as well and will take a decade to master.
 
How can you teach teens to respect the weapon they are holding in their hands? It's beyond difficult. It would be difficult to make it accepted in society.
Actually, it's better to teach from about 7-10y.o. in my opinion, I've seen teens grasp safety immediately as well as respect, the worst safety offenders I've seen are actually adults, which blows my mind. Teaching safety is pretty easy, you first show the steps of safety such as releasing a magazine, then checking the chamber AND barrel(which many people neglect to do), then making sure that all of the mechanisms are functioning properly. Once a gun has been cleared, whether it's a revolver or semi-automatic, you then have the "student" duplicate the process. Respect depends on the person, if you can't respect human life and safety, you can't respect a gun in my opinion, for instance, the first time I fired my newest one I was shaking at the thought of ever having to use it on anyone, it's a big caliber handgun, that's respect, when someone says "cool, I feel sorry for the next guy who........." I cringe.


Wayy ahead of you, i'm going down a range in a few weeks time to see it for myself. My brother is taking me =]
Cool, be safe and have fun.:2wave:
 
Yes I get that argument. "If everyone had a gun he would have died sooner".

That's not my argument. Maybe he would have died sooner, maybe he wouldn't have. It's hard to say. But gun restrictions and abolition is a form of treason, guns were to be guaranteed as a fully recognized right because we use them for self-defense. Not just for the off chance we happen into a situation in which we can help other individuals, but for the off chance that the government needs to be disposed of. Make no bones about it, a well regulated (i.e. armed and ready) militia is a necessity to a free state. Without it, the State will not remain free for long. Because of this the right of the People to keep and bear arms can not be infringed upon. It's that simple.

If everyone did have a gun would everyone use it responsibly or would it turn into the wild wild west? Should we allow killings in fair fights?

Not everyone would use the guns responsibly, but that's the fault of the individual whom doesn't use a firearm responsibly. It's not my fault, nor should I be punished because of it. It won't be the wild west and I don't know what your last question means. Duals? Sure, why not.
 
Or those that can't get access to the black market.

what gun laws do is disarm potential victims. That is why almost all criminals favor gun bans
 
Why would law abiding people want guns?

Why is it any of your business

There will always be criminals, having guns will not make a difference.

Give you a chance should the need arise.

Besides, i would not want my neighbours having guns.

Too bad you're not Queen of America. What say should you have in what your neighbors have? Why should you get to set rules for their actions based on your own biases? If you don't want your neighbors having guns, move to the country where you ain't got no neighbors.

If required illegally the laws would hardly matter to the shooter now would it?

Exactly, the only thing gun control does is infringe upon the rights of the people who choose to follow the law.
 
Might as well admit that you have no faith in the police if you need dangerous weapons to keep you safe :roll:

The police are under no obligation to come to your aid. They can't be everywhere at once, and sometimes they are the problem.
 
Too bad you're not Queen of America.

Who says i want to be?

US is US. I don't give a **** if they legalize rocket launchers. There is a ocean seperating us, that is what prevents me from caring.
 
The police are under no obligation to come to your aid.

God that is depressing, no police would come to your aid?
 
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Sounds fine to me.

Be over 18, have no criminal/mental medical history, declare what you want the gun for, Get a license and a secure safe.

Those exact laws were already in place in Germany and failed to avert this crisis. What sense does it make to enact such laws as a response to this incident?
 
Those exact laws were already in place in Germany and failed to avert this crisis. What sense does it make to enact such laws as a response to this incident?
It makes them feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel better.
 
God that is depressing, no police would come to your aid?

It is an impossibility for police to be able to cover even 10% of the population much less 100%.

Police are there to take reports after the crime is committed and to arrest the perpetrator.

Police can not prevent a crime with much success before it happens because there is no reason for them to arrest the person.
 
God that is depressing, no police would come to your aid?

They aren't obliged to. They can just not show up, that's not illegal. The cops in the end tend to be more State fundraisers than anything else. Go out giving speeding tickets or DUI or whatever it is they need to do to boost revenue to the State. That's their primary function now it seems anyway. I think the new cop uniforms should be girl scout uniforms.
 
Those exact laws were already in place in Germany and failed to avert this crisis. What sense does it make to enact such laws as a response to this incident?

Yes law abiding citizen over 18 owning a lot of guns can also be a problem. That like for example in this case and others it can lead to that their children get hold of the guns. But it still is pretty common sens to stop children and people with mental problem or criminal record from owning gun. That you do background check but also control the gun shops so the abide to the laws. It can also be common sens that law abiding citizen have to register the guns they have so they can't sell them to people on the black market.

It is also to understand the dangers gun have, that if a mother have a gun in her purse instead of pepper spray to protect herself, their is a change that she forget it one evening after a stress full day. Then the child can get hold of the gun and it's much more dangereus then if it got hold of the pepper spray.

You can also have a couple that is afraid of burglars but instead of getting a big dog they get a gun. After some year the marriage is falling a part and the husband comes home very drunk after discovering his wife have cheated on him. Instead of stopping after a severe beaten of his wife he instead have the gun their the consequences of his action comes much more quicker the understanding of what he is doing.

That kind of tragedies is more common then the terrible massacres that have occurred both in USA as well as Europe.
 
This is typical hoplophibic type of a response. US citizens own 192 million guns. Where is this "Wild West" you speak of?


Surely with 192 million guns, if your paranoia and fear was with merit, there would be more than these isolated incidents every few years.....

In 2006, in the US there were 30,694 gun deaths. Though not huge considering the amount of guns nor the amount of people, this is not isolated or incidental. Gun safety and gun education is key, not gun banning. There will always be the random crazy, or nice guy who goes crazy no matter what.

Solution? Increase mental health care. ;)
 
In 2006, in the US there were 30,694 gun deaths. Though not huge considering the amount of guns nor the amount of people, this is not isolated or incidental. Gun safety and gun education is key, not gun banning. There will always be the random crazy, or nice guy who goes crazy no matter what.

Solution? Increase mental health care. ;)




Link?


What percentage was that criminal on criminal?



idiot shooting innocents rare. very rare.
 
idiot shooting innocents rare. very rare.

terror attacks are even more rare but Fox talked about that every day during 8 years!

As for gun laws...I'm not in favor of wide availability of guns because if you can buy one easily, many morons are going to buy them and it can be reasonably deducted that there will be more deaths by gunfire

HOWEVER

it is also true that real criminals who want to get guns will get them easily, even if there's a ban on guns. Someone who is really decided to kill people can also use many different "tools", for example last month a crazy guy killed 2 or 3 babies with a knife
 
terror attacks are even more rare but Fox talked about that every day during 8 years!


Fallacy: Red Herring

As for gun laws...I'm not in favor of wide availability of guns because if you can buy one easily, many morons are going to buy them and it can be reasonably deducted that there will be more deaths by gunfire


192 million guns in the US

HOWEVER

it is also true that real criminals who want to get guns will get them easily, even if there's a ban on guns. Someone who is really decided to kill people can also use many different "tools", for example last month a crazy guy killed 2 or 3 babies with a knife


exactly, making your previous point moot.
 
Yes I get that argument. "If everyone had a gun he would have died sooner".

If everyone did have a gun would everyone use it responsibly or would it turn into the wild wild west? Should we allow killings in fair fights?

More people die from autmobiles accidents than any other cause; should we take them away because a few treat them irresponsibly?

The FACT is that gun laws do NOTHING to deter crime and just disarm law abiding citizens. There are NO statistics that support strict gun confiscation laws.

The cities with the stiffest gun laws have the highest crime rates; what a shocker. BUT, if I were a criminal, I would be all FOR gun confiscation laws because that way when I commit my crimes, I can be comforted knowing that it is a high probability the people I am robbing can't stop me.

This case, as the one in Scotland a few years back illustrates that if someone is going to use a gun in a crime, they will be able to get the gun regardless of all the high minded attempts to prevent it.

It makes NO sense to disarm the law abiding public because there are a few who might break the law and abuse their rights. They would do it regardless. It's as absurd as suggesting that cars kill people, therefore we should take cars away.

:roll:

Car Crash Stats: There were nearly 6,420,000 auto accidents in the United States in 2005. The financial cost of these crashes is more than 230 Billion dollars. 2.9 million people were injured and 42,636 people killed. About 115 people die every day in vehicle crashes in the United States -- one death every 13 minutes.
Car Accident Statistics, Stats, Auto, Fatal, Drunk Driving

In 2003 alone, 30,136 Americans died by gunfire: 16,907 in firearm suicides, 11,920 in firearm homicides, 730 in unintentional shootings, and 232 in firearm deaths of unknown intent, according to the National Center for Health Statistics. Nearly three times that number are treated in emergency rooms each year for nonfatal firearm injuries.
NRA Information - Gun Violence in America

Top Ten "Gun-Control" Myths
Top Ten "Gun-Control" Myths
 
The FACT is that gun laws do NOTHING to deter crime and just disarm law abiding citizens. There are NO statistics that support strict gun confiscation laws.

It makes NO sense to disarm the law abiding public because there are a few who might break the law and abuse their rights. They would do it regardless. It's as absurd as suggesting that cars kill people, therefore we should take cars away.

Surprisingly enough though the same could be said for our drug laws as well.

However, many people still feel it is the right of the government to interfere there.

So which is it? Is it in the best interest of people for the government to make things illegal that law abiding citizens would not abuse or not?
 
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