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Thread: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    What can I say, he's a politician. I don't like it, but you know what...show me one President in recent history that has actually done everything they said they would do?

    I suppose I am a bit jaded, but then again I never fully expected him to do some of the things he promised. I supported him because of his position on certain issues. One of which restoring support to state and local law enforcement, which he is absolutely doing.

    It's a mixed bag with politicians. This is never going to change. There is no "ONE." The Obama campaign team did like any other succesful Presidential campaign team has done...they developed a strategy and got their man elected. But I suppose if we're not going to gripe about what they do why be here right?
    But this is the problem and why we're making a fuss out of it. Many of us were saying EXACTLY what you're saying now. That Obama is not some big Change from politics as usual, Obama isn't this fresh faced new spin on politics. He's a politician saying **** to people that they want to hear and not being fully truthful.

    We were shouted down, insulted, and told "Nuh uh!" for saying such things. We were told just wait and see, he was going to be different, that we should be voting for him because he's really going to be different.

    He ran on being a "Change" from typical politics more than any Presidential candidate I can think of. It was pretty much his core, central point in the campaign. All politicians talk about it a bit, but he made it a central issue. And his followers bought into it hook, line, and sinker and attacked anyone that dared to say that wasn't the case.

    So now, after he hoodwinked the American population, those that were saying he was just like every other politician before hand are pointing out examples showing they were right. Not surprisingly, those that attacked them before now are either silent or make excuses.

    You can't run on a central issue, get your followers going rabid at people that dare to question his integrity on that central issue, get elected and basically go back greatly on that central issue that helped get him elected, and then expect not to be called on it.

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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    There you go.
    You dont get my meaning.

    Your complaints about the Bush adminsitration -- are they effectively answered, in your mind, by the response you gave - show me one President in recent history that has actually done everything they said they would do?

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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    But this is the problem and why we're making a fuss out of it. Many of us were saying EXACTLY what you're saying now. That Obama is not some big Change from politics as usual, Obama isn't this fresh faced new spin on politics. He's a politician saying **** to people that they want to hear and not being fully truthful.
    I stated long ago that The Obama was JAFLD*.
    Nothing that's happened since the election gives me any reason to think I am wrong.

    * - Just Another F-ing Liberal Democrat.

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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If everyone shared that attitude, I suspect they'd do it a lot more often. If everyone called them out on it, I suspect they'd do it a lot less often.

    The fact is, there are many examples in recent history of ways in which vigilant constituents can force politicians to abide by their promises. Many groups have managed to get politicians to promise not to do things, such as raise taxes, which the politicians are incredibly scared to break. Just look at the most recent CA budget situation where Republicans refused to agree to raise taxes because they knew they would catch hell for it.



    excatly, complacency and acceptence of crap like this breeds tyranny.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If everyone shared that attitude, I suspect they'd do it a lot more often. If everyone called them out on it, I suspect they'd do it a lot less often.
    My attitude is born of the fact that I can't remember a time when the voters didn't scream at the top of their lungs to hold our political leaders accountable. When has this not happened? And how much has actually changed? It's not us, it's them.

    My attitude is not one of laying down, my comments were simply an observation of the frustration and what seems to be surprise among some posters here. Where did I ever say "don't hold them accountable?" Try not to read so much into it please.

    The fact is, there are many examples in recent history of ways in which vigilant constituents can force politicians to abide by their promises. Many groups have managed to get politicians to promise not to do things, such as raise taxes, which the politicians are incredibly scared to break. Just look at the most recent CA budget situation where Republicans refused to agree to raise taxes because they knew they would catch hell for it.
    And I'm pretty sure I said that I simply asked someone to show me any President who has done everything they said they were going to do. I'm not saying we don't stay on top of them...I'm just addressing the reality that campaign promises have a long history of being broken. This is no surprise.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    You dont get my meaning.

    Your complaints about the Bush adminsitration -- are they effectively answered, in your mind, by the response you gave - show me one President in recent history that has actually done everything they said they would do?
    Can you show me where I complained about Bush not doing what he said he was going to do? You don't apparently don't know my complaints about the Bush administration.

    I didn't excuse anyone for it, I'm just not on here getting my panties in a wad over the fact that Obama is acting just like every other politician. Hell, I expected it. That doesn't mean I like it.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Can you show me where I complained about Bush not doing what he said he was going to do? You don't apparently don't know my complaints about the Bush administration.

    I didn't excuse anyone for it, I'm just not on here getting my panties in a wad over the fact that Obama is acting just like every other politician. Hell, I expected it. That doesn't mean I like it.
    Convenient for you, all of that.

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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    SSDD



    10characters

    Human Taxidermist - - now offering his services for all your loved ones
    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    How the hell did you just tie in a retroactive reparative measure with a proactive preventative measure. Not even close to being the same thing.

  9. #29
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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    But this is the problem and why we're making a fuss out of it. Many of us were saying EXACTLY what you're saying now. That Obama is not some big Change from politics as usual, Obama isn't this fresh faced new spin on politics. He's a politician saying **** to people that they want to hear and not being fully truthful.
    I understand your frustration. I suppose I'm just not as caught up in it. You did all that you could I'm sure. But in politics there is a race, people choose a side, both campaign, somebody wins, somebody loses. I was very frustrated in 2004. Now, a little...but not nearly as much as I was back then. Of course I was on the winning side this time.
    We were shouted down, insulted, and told "Nuh uh!" for saying such things. We were told just wait and see, he was going to be different, that we should be voting for him because he's really going to be different.
    Yes and the right engaged in the exact same kind of bull**** towards Dems/Libs on this very board. RHH, bhkad, TD, Aqua, Navy, GH, and a host of others did the same thing. Shouted down? Hardly. Shouted back at? Sure. The right just lost the shouting match. I'm not saying you did it, but several on here did. Welcome to hyper partisan politics and all the joys it brings. It's the new rage.
    He ran on being a "Change" from typical politics more than any Presidential candidate I can think of. It was pretty much his core, central point in the campaign. All politicians talk about it a bit, but he made it a central issue. And his followers bought into it hook, line, and sinker and attacked anyone that dared to say that wasn't the case.
    Seriously, as much as it was made fun of by the right and criticized, are you really surprised at all? How much more ambiguous do you have to get with a campaign slogan? "Change." Seriously, they gave themselves a lot of latitude. He's going to do things differently than Bush and that is change from the last eight years. Is it the kind of change he campaigned on? Hardly. The whole campaign slogan was so simplistic that it begged to be attacked. And it was.

    So now, after he hoodwinked the American population, those that were saying he was just like every other politician before hand are pointing out examples showing they were right. Not surprisingly, those that attacked them before now are either silent or make excuses.
    Who's silent about it? You know how things get around election time. It's turned up to 11 and the gloves are taken off. That's politics. It sucks, nobody likes it, we all want politicians to be honest about everything they say, and that is why we gripe. And? What really changes? The election ends, things calm down, people lose the level of interest they had, and then the griping begins. We have four years of this to look forward to.

    You can't run on a central issue, get your followers going rabid at people that dare to question his integrity on that central issue, get elected and basically go back greatly on that central issue that helped get him elected, and then expect not to be called on it.
    I agree with you, and people are calling him on it. Where have I said he shouldn't be called on it? The right did the same thing with their fear mongering and patriotism campaign. "Democrats and liberals harm our troops!" "Terrorist supporters!" Swiftboating.

    Which is my point. Keep shouting, keep holding them accountable, hell...why don't you run for an office? I'm simply looking at this and saying "this is our system, good, bad or indifferent...it is what it is." No one man, not even the "Messiah", the "ONE" is going to change that. It will take a movement by a large majority of the people to educate themselves and vote intelligently. Starting with Congress, because there is where the real problem lies. Even then it's a crap shoot because we live in a mixed capitalist society and as long as there are campaign donation to be made there are positions and votes to be sold that may very well run contrary to the will of the people.
    Last edited by Lerxst; 03-10-09 at 02:38 PM.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Obama to limit signing statements on bills

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Convenient for you, all of that.
    Don't like that I didn't let you put me into a box you had already built? Too bad Goobieman, maybe pick a fight with someone else. This is a really big deal to you, and that's fine. You deal with it how you have to. But I'm not going to let you paint me into the corner of your choosing just so you can get your jollies punching on a liberal.

    Now, my views are what they are. I'm not as extreme in my partisanship as you are, and I realize that presents problems for your usual M.O. I can't help you out here. Find another target.
    *insert profound statement here*

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