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Thread: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    No. The only thing it requires is self-control. We must use our higher mind (that which distinguishes us from animals) to control our behavior.
    No human save those mentioned in story books have ever been capable of such. This "christ-like"/Buddha behavior is clearly a standard only of fairytales or extreme improbability.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Are you serious? How can you not see how that would take away a certain amount of individuality from a person?
    No, I can't. Please tell me.


    Yes, I believe morality is subjective too.

    No, I wouldn't agree with that. It's neither wrong or right. The only thing one can say with a fair amount of certainty is that there are consequences for ones actions. If I were to hit someone and it were completely unwarranted I should certainly expect to be hit back or at least face some kind of consequences for my actions.
    What is it that causes one to seek revenge when he has been smashed in the face? The feeling that he has been wronged, that the other person's actions were unjust. We know instinctively what is right from what is wrong, another characteristic which distinguishes us from animals. For instance, when hear on television that 100 civilians were killed in a bombing, we know it is wrong though we may try to justify it by claiming it serves a higher cause. (the myth that the ends justify the means)
    Last edited by BulletWounD; 03-11-09 at 05:23 PM.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    No human save those mentioned in story books have ever been capable of such. This "christ-like"/Buddha behavior is clearly a standard only of fairytales or extreme improbability.
    I agree that it's impossible for the average person to follow it 100%, but so long as you try your very best and encourage others to do the same you are doing the right thing.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    No, I can't. Please tell me.
    Well, if you haven't understood where I'm coming from based on what I've already said, there's really nothing more that I can add that will make you understand. You have your opinion and I have mine.

    What is it that causes one to seek revenge when he has been smashed in the face? The feeling that he has been wronged, that the other person's actions were unjust. We know instinctively what is right from what is wrong, another characteristic which distinguishes us from animals. For instance, when hear on television that 100 civilians were killed in a bombing, we know it is wrong though we may try to justify it by claiming it serves a higher cause.
    A desire for justice perhaps? If a person has wronged you, why not seek revenge? One can pretend to be pious and above that, but what purpose does that serve? Obviously, it serves a purpose if you believe in a higher power, but not everyone does. And we are animals. We can pretend not to be all we want, but it changes nothing.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    I agree that it's impossible for the average person to follow it 100%, but so long as you try your very best and encourage others to do the same you are doing the right thing.
    Right according to whom? A non-existent God who may or may not exist and who you believe in based solely on trust? Like, I said..that's pretty flimsy.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Well, if you haven't understood where I'm coming from based on what I've already said, there's really nothing more that I can add that will make you understand. You have your opinion and I have mine.
    You could explain to me how voluntarily following the golden rule robs an individual of his individuality.

    A desire for justice perhaps? If a person has wronged you, why not seek revenge? One can pretend to be pious and above that, but what purpose does that serve?
    It serves the higher purpose of breaking the cycle which has us trapped in a ****ty world of man-made injustice.

    Obviously, it serves a purpose if you believe in a higher power, but not everyone does. And we are animals. We can pretend not to be all we want, but it changes nothing.
    In the biological sense, we are animals but there are several characteristics which separate us from other animals (conscience being a pretty big one).

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    You could explain to me how voluntarily following the golden rule robs an individual of his individuality.
    Like I said, if you haven't gotten the gist of my views by now, there is nothing further that I can say that would help you to understand. I've clarified as much as I can.

    It serves the higher purpose of breaking the cycle which has us trapped in a ****ty world of man-made injustice.
    I don't really think that Lex Talionis is a man-made law. Animals also seem to live by this law.

    In the biological sense, we are animals but there are several characteristics which separate us from other animals (conscience being a pretty big one).
    Yes, but there's really no reason that we should deny our animal instincts as if we are better than animals somehow.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Like I said, if you haven't gotten the gist of my views by now, there is nothing further that I can say that would help you to understand. I've clarified as much as I can.
    You haven't clarified anything. You simply made an assertion and didn't explain it.

    I don't really think that Lex Talionis is a man-made law. Animals also seem to live by this law.
    "An eye for an eye" is a limitation, not a justification. This is a misinterpretation. I know because I have studied the whole of the text, rather than picking out bits and pieces to prove a point.

    Yes, but there's really no reason that we should deny our animal instincts as if we are better than animals somehow.
    There absolutely is a reason and that is to avoid hurting others, the same way you don't want to be hurt. How does a father explain morality to a child when they have breached it? "How would YOU like it if someone did that to YOU?"

    I posted this in another thread, but here's a great example of people behaving like animals. Notice how they hurt the grandmother:

    YouTube - LA Riots - Gunfight In Koreatown
    Last edited by BulletWounD; 03-11-09 at 05:50 PM.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    You haven't clarified anything. You simply made an assertion and didn't explain it.
    Fine. Then let me clarify one final time. By subscribing to the "golden rule" you are agreeing that the "golden rule" is right and that other rules are wrong. And since the "golden rule" is based in Christianity you are subscribing to a particular belief system. Part of what makes us individual are our spirtual beliefs. Not only that, but since I believe morality is subjective, you are also subscribing to a particular moral code. We all have our own individual definitions of morality which take part in making us individuals. If you wipe that away it takes a certain amount of our individuality away. Personally, individuality is far too important to me to lose to a bull**** "love everybody" philosophy.

    "An eye for an eye" is a limitation, not a justification. This is a misinterpretation. I know because I have studied the whole of the text, rather than picking out bits and pieces to prove a point.
    How is it a limitation?

    There absolutely is a reason and that is to avoid hurting others, the same way you don't want to be hurt. How does a father explain morality to a child when they have breached it? "How would YOU like it if someone did that to YOU?"
    Yeah, if you want to look weak. Like I said, I think it's silly to subscribe to a "love everybody" ideology. If someone does wrong to me I will get revenge in a way that I feel is appropriate.

    I posted this in another thread, but here's a great example of people behaving like animals. Notice how they hurt the grandmother:

    YouTube - LA Riots - Gunfight In Koreatown
    I don't condone thievery, but those people made a choice to steal and I'm sure they will face the consequences of said actions. If not this time then another time I'm sure. I don't steal because I personally don't think it's worth the possible consequences.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Fine. Then let me clarify one final time. By subscribing to the "golden rule" you are agreeing that the "golden rule" is right and that other rules are wrong. And since the "golden rule" is based in Christianity you are subscribing to a particular belief system. Part of what makes us individual are our spirtual beliefs. Not only that, but since I believe morality is subjective, you are also subscribing to a particular moral code. We all have our own individual definitions of morality which take part in making us individuals. If you wipe that away it takes a certain amount of our individuality away. Personally, individuality is far too important to me to lose to a bull**** "love everybody" philosophy.
    Yes, you would be agreeing that the golden rule is right. Wouldn't you agree that non-conformity for the sake of itself is pretty stupid? I'm gonna go wear pants on my head and a shirt on my legs because I want to maintain my individuality.

    How is it a limitation?
    It's a limitation on how one responds to a violation. It doesn't condone the action, it's a reflection of the fact that we live in a society in which not everybody is following God's Law. By no means is it to be interpreted as "If somebody punches you, punch them back." Instead it means "If somebody punches you, don't rip off their testicles."

    Yeah, if you want to look weak. Like I said, I think it's silly to subscribe to a "love everybody" ideology. If someone does wrong to me I will get revenge in a way that I feel is appropriate.
    Apology and forgiveness make you look weak? I think it takes far more strength to forgive or apologize than it does to go out and seek revenge.

    I don't condone thievery, but those people made a choice to steal and I'm sure they will face the consequences of said actions. If not this time then another time I'm sure. I don't steal because I personally don't think it's worth the possible consequences.
    Ahh, so the reason you do not engage in immoral actions is fear of the consequences (a criticism traditionally leveraged against Christians). Fair enough... I hope you find satisfaction in your way of life.

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