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Thread: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

  1. #91
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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    I agree that it's impossible for the average person to follow it 100%,
    I don't know if its impossible. Its just thus far been unproven as practical or possible in recorded history.... unless you believe testimony and mythology is reliable proof.

    but so long as you try your very best and encourage others to do the same you are doing the right thing.
    Well haven't I already shown the subtle flaws in the Golden Rule?

    1) How it is a flawed standard since it is incapable of being adhered to due to human nature.

    2) how everyone has a different opinion on what proper reciprocation is due to differing knowledge.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    I don't know if its impossible. Its just thus far been unproven as practical or possible in recorded history.... unless you believe testimony and mythology is reliable proof.


    Well haven't I already shown the subtle flaws in the Golden Rule?

    1) How it is a flawed standard since it is incapable of being adhered to due to human nature.
    We are imperfect, not the law. We must accept that and try our best to conform to it.

    2) how everyone has a different opinion on what proper reciprocation is due to differing knowledge.
    For instance?

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    We are imperfect, not the law. We must accept that and try our best to conform to it.
    But if the rule is impractical or flawed (both in this case) why not strive for a better one?

    For instance?
    Look up "ethic of reciprocity" on wiki. Near the bottom are criticisms.

    The one presented by Kant is enlightening.

    Do unto others as they wish be done unto them. (How do you know what they want?)

    Do unto others as you would expect they should do unto you. (What if they don't agree with your expectations?)
    Last edited by scourge99; 03-11-09 at 08:54 PM.
    If you believe in the Supernatural then you can become a millionaire!

    Questioning or criticizing another's core beliefs is inadvertently perceived as offensive and rude.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    But if the rule is impractical or flawed (both in this case) why not strive for a better one?


    Look up "ethic of reciprocity" on wiki. Near the bottom are criticisms.

    The one presented by Kant is enlightening.
    Kant's quote only applies in a system where others are breaking the golden rule. We have a justice system in lieu of the fact that not everybody has accepted it and not everybody is following it. It's a compromise. The key is to break the cycle of injustice so that the justice system is stripped of its necessity.

    Do unto others as they wish be done unto them. (How do you know what they want?)

    Do unto others as you would expect they should do unto you. (What if they don't agree with your expectations?)
    We make reasonable assumptions about what others would want based on what we want. Today I was thinking about taking my elderly neighbor's dog for a walk. I thought about it and this is pretty much how my train of thought went.

    "If I were elderly and unable to walk my own dog whom I love, wouldn't I want someone to walk him for me?"

    "Only if they asked first"

    "I'll go ask"

    "Oh yeah, I'm sick and by contacting her I could get her sick and that could kill her. Surely she doesn't want to get sick and die." (a reasonable assumption)

    So I didn't go ask.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    The problem with the Golden rule (At least the rule I know as the golden rule)

    Do Unto others as you would have them do to you
    Is quite flawed.

    There are people that like to get buck naked and get spanked as adults, does that mean it is ok for someone like that to spank others in that way because that person would like it done unto them? No.

    That rule is seriously flawed to say the least when you're dealing with a person you don't relate to.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The problem with the Golden rule (At least the rule I know as the golden rule)

    Is quite flawed.

    There are people that like to get buck naked and get spanked as adults, does that mean it is ok for someone like that to spank others in that way because that person would like it done unto them? No.

    That rule is seriously flawed to say the least when you're dealing with a person you don't relate to.
    Would that person want someone to do that to him against his will? No, of course not, because it's logically impossible to want someone to violate your will. So the only logical solution would be to ask, but in so doing he must consider "If I shared his values, would I even want to be asked?" "Probably not, just as I wouldn't want someone to ask me if I wanted a cucumber shoved up my ass or [insert huge departure from the norm here]"

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by GarzaUK View Post

    These videos do not prove that atheism is the reason for these positive statistics. They would have to study both groups, believers and non believers, from similar geographic, ethnic, educational, and economic levels to pinpoint that is the reason. Obviously, it is much more likely it is education and income levels that these statistics are correlated with. I mean I don't think you're going to see too many Mormons with doctorate degrees capping someone's a.. gangsta style. And I don't see anytime soon public policy coming from the Obama administration trying to convince inner city youth against belief in God to drastically reduce violence rates.

    Clearly the valid point is a higher percentage of those getting degrees in Western universities as a whole do not believe in God than those who have not been so educated.
    Last edited by laska; 03-11-09 at 11:15 PM.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    I'm just curious, it seems they are trying to say most religious groups have lost ground, but could it be that more people are just turning towards agnostic instead of atheism?

    Turning away from strict mainstream religions doesn't mean people are not religious, it just means that they may have adopted parts of religion and turned towards agnosticism.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 03-11-09 at 11:16 PM.

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    What an absurd non-factual argument. The richest and most educated among us are devoutly religious and many being Catholic.
    Proof? Prove it. The overwhelming majority of the religious are POOR. Just look at Africa, South America & the Middle East. The rich on the other hand are less religious.

    Religion & Wealth: Less Religious Countries are More Wealthy

    The survey finds a strong relationship between a country's religiosity and its economic status. In poorer nations, religion remains central to the lives of individuals, while secular perspectives are more common in richer nations.1 This relationship generally is consistent across regions and countries, although there are some exceptions, including most notably the United States, which is a much more religious country than its level of prosperity would indicate. Other nations deviate from the pattern as well, including the oil-rich, predominantly Muslim -- and very religious -- kingdom of Kuwait.
    The Washington Monthly

    Pew Global Attitudes Project: Summary of Findings: World Publics Welcome Global Trade -- But Not Immigration





    The more rich. The less religion. The more poor. The more religion. This is based on FACT. You like that word don't you?

    This is as absurd as suggesting that Governments can confiscate the wealth of the people who create jobs and re-distributes them to the poor to elevate their status.
    Ummm what?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Most religious groups in USA have lost ground, survey finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Proof? Prove it. The overwhelming majority of the religious are POOR. Just look at Africa, South America & the Middle East. The rich on the other hand are less religious.

    Religion & Wealth: Less Religious Countries are More Wealthy



    The Washington Monthly

    Pew Global Attitudes Project: Summary of Findings: World Publics Welcome Global Trade -- But Not Immigration





    The more rich. The less religion. The more poor. The more religion. This is based on FACT. You like that word don't you?



    Ummm what?
    Oh blow it out your ass.

    Last edited by American; 03-12-09 at 12:59 AM.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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