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Chinese Navy surround and harrass US Navy Ship Impeccable

You people keep acting as if they can just up and demand payment as a form of extortion.

They could simply not buy our t-bills. Right now, that would crash our economy.

They can't and it would hurt China a hell of a lot more than us if we stopped buying their cheap leaded plastic trinkets and stopped shipping out grain to them.

What makes you think they can't? If we do something crazy and illegal like impounding Chinese shipping, you can be sure they will do something legal and practical like not continue buying our debt.The Chinese would suffer as well, but that is little comfort. Its better for us to work together, rather than both go down in flames.
 
They could simply not buy our t-bills. Right now, that would crash our economy.



What makes you think they can't? If we do something crazy and illegal like impounding Chinese shipping, you can be sure they will do something legal and practical like not continue buying our debt.The Chinese would suffer as well, but that is little comfort. Its better for us to work together, rather than both go down in flames.

I'm sure they can stop buying the debt, but I am also sure they can't just up and demand payment at any time for what is already bought. It doesn't work that way.

I think that if China is making aggressive moves like this, we shouldn't show any weakness in any arena, military or otherwise.
 
I'm sure they can stop buying the debt, but I am also sure they can't just up and demand payment at any time for what is already bought. It doesn't work that way.

You can cash a saving bonds any time you feel like, it is just another asset. Normally you don't have huge amounts cashed at one time, but it is possible. That doesn't also change the fact that merely not buying further t-bills would severely hurt us, considering the large amount of deficit spending for the last 8 years(which is getting worse as we speak). It may be mutually assured destruction, but China does have the capability to utterly ruin our economy if it really comes down it.

I think that if China is making aggressive moves like this, we shouldn't show any weakness in any arena, military or otherwise.

This is pointless posturing. If you get all agitated over it, it makes you look a fool who can be lead around by the nose. Refusing to be baited by pathetic insults in a sign of intelligence, not weakness. Or do you respect the macho idiots who act all tough whenever their masculinity is threatened?

The military should only be deployed for real threats, not for showmanship.
 
-- In the same vein, we should have sunk Iran's Navy when they grabbed up those british Sailors.

Disagree, the British Navy should have sunk Iran's Navy as soon as they grabbed our sailors. I'm still angry that we did nothing and then handed Iran a propaganda victory that day.
 
lol they stripped down to their underwear? I wonder if they did it just to flash the U.S. navy ship. It seems very unusual!

Ahem... as for the matter at heart... I don't know much about international law as it pertains to the Southern China Sea, but if the ship had gone through the region more than once then I can understand why it would be considered a threat to China.

Imagine this same scenario but on the U.S. coast, and with a Chinese ship. Even if it were just outside of the U.S. boundary, it would be considered noticable.
 
This is pointless posturing. If you get all agitated over it, it makes you look a fool who can be lead around by the nose. Refusing to be baited by pathetic insults in a sign of intelligence, not weakness. Or do you respect the macho idiots who act all tough whenever their masculinity is threatened?

The military should only be deployed for real threats, not for showmanship.

I respect lines being drawn and having the expectation that crossing it will bring consequences. Ramming our planes and harassing our ships in open water is a threat that should be dealt with decisively.

As much as you would like to deflect from the real issue with all this talk of machoism and other namby pamby bull**** in an attempt to insult my intelligence, the fact remains that China is testing its boundaries with us. Those boundaries need to be established as immovable.
 
Jallman has made a very good point here regarding China's realistic ability to tank our economy. They won't do it because 1.) we simply wouldn't pay, and 2.) it would tank their economy as well. Like it or not we have mutual interest in each others economies being stable. We aren't in the middle of a shaky and uncertain industrial revolution right now, they are. If they were to try and take our economy hostage they would be doing it with a hand grenade duct taped to their face.
 
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Jallman has made a very good point here regarding China's realistic ability to tank our economy. They won't do it because 1.) we simply wouldn't pay, and 2.) it would tank their economy as well. Like it or not we have mutual interest in each others economies being stable. We aren't in the middle of an shaky and uncertain industrial revolution right now, they are. If they were to try and taker our economy hostage they would be doing it with a hand grenade duct taped to their face.
Absolutely, a simple change in U.S. trade law banning Chinese goods from any reason ranging from safety(great case could be made there) to "we just felt like it" could crush the budding Chinese manufacturing economy.
 
Jallman has made a very good point here regarding China's realistic ability to tank our economy. They won't do it because 1.) we simply wouldn't pay, and 2.) it would tank their economy as well. Like it or not we have mutual interest in each others economies being stable. We aren't in the middle of an shaky and uncertain industrial revolution right now, they are. If they were to try and taker our economy hostage they would be doing it with a hand grenade duct taped to their face.

And no one is going to cash bonds for 1/2 of what they are worth when they haven't matured. It's stupid. And the Chinese aren't stupid. Most of the time.
 
This is just pointless posturing. The most practical thing to do is tell the Chinese to knock it off and just keep doing our usual activities.

Just curious if that would be trading our dollars for their inferior junk so that they can accumulate enough wealth to continue buying up our debt? :doh
 
Yeah, because pointless crap like that is worth completely obliterating our economy over.



And the Chinese response is "Thats fine. Now pay up all the debt that you owe us". Then our economy sinks likes a child actors career after puberty.

Overreacting to posturing is stupid. The U.S. and China have absolutely nothing to gain by fighting each and everything to lose. Unless China does something that is actually a threat, taking drastic action is harmful to our country.

Since we are not able to pay up the debt I assume people in the future would call the current president a liar for not telling the real reason we ended up starting WWIII.

I do agree with your thoughts on posturing, but there still remains a need to show our strength and ability as a nation unless we desire to have any country with a little power (or lots of it like China) push us around and take total advantage of us like our legislators have for so long.
 
They could simply not buy our t-bills. Right now, that would crash our economy.



What makes you think they can't? If we do something crazy and illegal like impounding Chinese shipping, you can be sure they will do something legal and practical like not continue buying our debt.The Chinese would suffer as well, but that is little comfort. Its better for us to work together, rather than both go down in flames.


I have to think that continuing the current situation would be far worse long term than any of the changes offered here.

Saying good bye to cheap imports and all the debt holding everything back would be just like how a corporation in chapter 11 just says oops sorry to it's debt holders without any remorse and then starts over without the negative effects of its poor decisions and actions of the past.

Much as that may sound attractive lets not forget they do have more than economic weapons at their disposal, and also that with the recent actions of our greedy corporations and legislators we would only end up in trouble again in the future.

Almost makes you wonder why the other countries of which the US is in debt to do not also take their turns testing and making fun of us.
 
fallows-chinese-banker-wide.jpg


This man, Gao Xiqing,the general manager of CIC(Chinese Investment Corporation, which is quite possibly the biggest investor in the United States) just had a few words to say about America. Gao is most notably betting against the dollar.

"Be nice to countries that lend you money."

"We'd like to help you guys...if it's sustainable."

“Be Nice to the Countries That Lend You Money” - The Atlantic (December 2008)

This man worked at Nixon's Wall street law firm and is very well versed on American debt, he is the first person I would look to on this issue.

I think the extent of China buying US treasury bonds is the same reason why Coca-cola owns large shares in McDonalds, it allows them to have a guaranteed source of income. Some might say, what allowed McDonalds to capitalize on there competitors was the partnership with coca-cola. Same can be said for America and China's association with each other, even though Gao is betting against the dollar, the reward more than outweighs the risk.

If this alternative energy becomes a reality in the next 25 years, he says most notably that China will not need to buy any more bonds because that money won't be shipped to countries like Saudi Arabia anymore.
 
VOIDWAR posted(In the same vein, we should have sunk Iran's Navy when they grabbed up those british Sailors.)

I see that you continue to follow just the headlines.

A great pity, because had you bothered to follow up with this story you might have read where the British Government admitted that they posted an incorrect GPS reading of where the British craft was.
In fact it transpired that they WERE actually within Iranian waters when they were apprehended.
 
Instead of a fire hose, next time they should use a flame thrower. :mrgreen:
 
Absolutely, a simple change in U.S. trade law banning Chinese goods from any reason ranging from safety(great case could be made there) to "we just felt like it" could crush the budding Chinese manufacturing economy.

Only problem is our mutual WTO obligations.
 
VOIDWAR posted(In the same vein, we should have sunk Iran's Navy when they grabbed up those british Sailors.)

I see that you continue to follow just the headlines.

A great pity, because had you bothered to follow up with this story you might have read where the British Government admitted that they posted an incorrect GPS reading of where the British craft was.
In fact it transpired that they WERE actually within Iranian waters when they were apprehended.

The wiki disagrees that the waters are actually defined.

The captain of the HMS Cornwall should not have allowed female sailors under his command to be "apprehended" in ANY case. The Iranians should have been warned away from the inflatable with one live round, and SUNK if they continued to approach the deployed boarding team. The Captain of the Cornwall left his personnel undefended and failed them. Why would anyone ever deploy in an inflatable again with this ***** driving the Cornwall as your back-up ???

Waters or not, they don't sieze my personnel, ever. If my daughter was on that dinghy, and given to Iranians without a fight, me and the Captain of the Cornwall would have a long talk in a dark alley when he got back home.
 
Gee....it took the ChiComs three months to begin air piracy against the US when Bush was president. They must realize that Obama is a total wimp and they're not wasting any time breaking the newbie in.

They were deliberately trying to provoke a collision in the hopes that one of their crew would die, so they could then make claims about US agression against the Peaceful Idiots of China in Chinese national waters.

Don't say they wouldn't. They claimed their attack on our EP-3 was in chinese airspace (it wasn't) and that we caused the collision that killed their moron (we didn't - when boobs that don't understand aerodynamics fly too close under a lifting wing, they don't expect a wing in the face, but they wrecked the wing's lift, and it smacked him hard, cuz that's what happens when you're stupid and do stupid things.)

Obama will whine and cry....and the Chinese will continue to harass US ships because we've got another ball-less president now.
 
I disagree with this "honoring".

I am not happy with that pilot.

That pilot delivered that plane and those personnel into enemy hands when he should have just ditched into the sea, you know, that big blue thing beneath him that the U.S. Navy OWNS. He took directives from a foreign government, and delivered U.S. property to them. He should have put the plane in the drink, where any idiot know the U.S. navy will win the rescue race.

Nope. We weren't at war.

His responsibility was the safety of his crew. And it's a god damned humongous ocean and people are really tiny itty bitty things. They probably would have all died in the water.

I doubt if the crew left much if anything useful intact in that airplane. Like you didn't say, it's a deep ocean down there.
 
Voidwar is right though...we should have locked down every Chinese vessel in our ports the minute they took that aggressive stance with the plane. "Sure, China, you can have that plane. But all these vessels and the goods they were carrying now belong to the US government. We advise you to not enter our airspace or shipping lanes again."

What we should have done is waited for the ambassador to see that all US crew were off the airplane and call us that the coast is clear.

A couple of Tomahawks would have ended the Chinese interest in that airplane real fast...especially if one missed and landed in whatever building in Beijing houses the current emperor....er dictator for life, I mean.

However, that would have required a president with balls, and Bush, being a liberal, didn't have any.
 
Yeah, because pointless crap like that is worth completely obliterating our economy over.



And the Chinese response is "Thats fine. Now pay up all the debt that you owe us". Then our economy sinks likes a child actors career after puberty.

Nah...we just say...."you bought yourself an airplane. Enjoy."
 
They could simply not buy our t-bills. Right now, that would crash our economy.

:shock:


Worse than what Obama's doing to it?

Not possible.

Its better for us to work together, rather than both go down in flames.

Great idea.

First Step: China stops it's acts of air and sea piracy.
 
Imagine this same scenario but on the U.S. coast, and with a Chinese ship. Even if it were just outside of the U.S. boundary, it would be considered noticable.

And at the most, a Coast Guard cutter or Navy destroyer would have been assigned to monitor them at a prudent distance for as long they were in some area causing us concern. They can lurk outside our coastal waters for as long as they want without repurcussions.

That's why the Chinese had to falsely claim the vessel was in a special economic zone, just like they had to falsely claim our EP-3 was in Chinese airspace when it clearly was not before they attacked it.
 
I think you guys are thinking to into this military naval stuff, have you guys not remembered we liberated China from Japan?

Seriously, I doubt they would forget that quickly how we saved there behinds, if you don't know what happen here is a short comic explaining.

WWII-1.jpg
 
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