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Thread: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

  1. #41
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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    OH!

    SO now the Joke is going to use a policy which he declared an utter failure..I suppose all his supporters now support it too...
    jackasses..and the 'jack' is too nice.

    Typical garbage form this crowd.

    Taliban /al-Qaeda and friends are using suicide bombers and boobytraps now on a much larger scale in Afghanistan..

    Know why?
    ..because despite it failing to defeat the US military in Iraq..it kicked the **** out of the left in this nation and made them betray our soldier sin Iraq at every turn.


    Just Surrender you jokes.





    (Before anyone here gets in a pissy fit. The above is not in response to any post made here it is simply commenting on the BS crap Obama and his crowd of defeatist trash will/are pulling.)

    Anyway....you might notice they are already hinting at the Afghans are "not doing enough" ...
    Pissed off because you couldn't defeat the Taliban in 7 years? Stand back and let someone else do the job.

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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Gault View Post
    More on COIN, Check out anything written by LTC Nagl, he wrote soup with a Knife. The military is pushing that book hard at all of the COIN training areas... There is another book, I got it somewhere they gave me in class, I can't remember the author right now, but it is a french guy (a country who has beaucoup experience in COIN) and the foreword is by Nagl... I think its called military Counter-Insurgency tactics, or something like that...
    I'm a fan of Nagl's. I once exchanged a post with him on another forum.



    EDIT: Are you thinking of Galula?

    David Galula - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by bhkad; 03-10-09 at 02:32 PM.

    OBL 11/24/02

  3. #43
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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    Here is another foreword Nagl wrote:

    The Evolution and Importance of Army/Marine Corps Field Manual 3-24, Counterinsurgency
    by Lt. Colonel John A. Nagl

    Although there were lonely voices arguing that the Army needed to focus on counterinsurgency in the wake of the Cold War—Dan Bolger, Eliot Cohen, and Steve Metz chief among them—the sad fact is that when an insurgency began in Iraq in the late summer of 2003, the Army was unprepared to fight it. The American Army of 2003 was organized, designed, trained, and equipped to defeat another conventional army; indeed, it had no peer in that arena. It was, however, unprepared for an enemy who understood that it could not hope to defeat the U.S. Army on a conventional battlefield, and who therefore chose to wage war against America from the shadows.

    The story of how the Army found itself less than ready to fight an insurgency goes back to the Army’s unwillingness to internalize and build upon the lessons of Vietnam. Chief of Staff of the Army General Peter Schoomaker has written that in Vietnam, “The U.S. Army, predisposed to fight a conventional enemy that fought using conventional tactics, overpowered innovative ideas from within the Army and from outside it. As a result, the U.S. Army was not as effective at learning as it should have been, and its failures in Vietnam had grave implications for both the Army and the nation.” Former Vice Chief of Staff of the Army General Jack Keane concurs, recently noting that in Iraq, “We put an Army on the battlefield that I had been a part of for 37 years. It doesn’t have any doctrine, nor was it educated and trained, to deal with an insurgency . . . After the Vietnam War, we purged ourselves of everything that had to do with irregular warfare or insurgency, because it had to do with how we lost that war. In hindsight, that was a bad decision.”

    [...]

    Population security is the first requirement of success in counterinsurgency, but it is not sufficient. Economic development, good governance, and the provision of essential services, all occurring within a matrix of effective information operations, must all improve simultaneously and steadily over a long period of time if America’s determined insurgent enemies are to be defeated.

    All elements of the United States government—and those of her allies in this Long War that has been well described as a “Global Counterinsurgency” campaign—must be integrated into the effort to build stable and secure societies that can secure their own borders and do not provide safe haven for terrorists. Recognizing this fact—a recognition spurred by the development of the Counterinsurgency Field Manual—the Department of State hosted an interagency counterinsurgency conference in Washington, D.C., in September 2006.

    That conference in turn built a consensus behind the need for an interagency counterinsurgency manual. It promises to result in significant changes to the Department of State, the U.S. Agency for International Development, and the other agencies of the U.S. government that have such an important role to play in stabilizing troubled countries around the globe.

    Of the many books that were influential in the writing of Field Manual 3-24, perhaps none was as important as David Galula’s Counterinsurgency Warfare: Theory and Practice. Galula, a French Army officer who drew many valuable lessons from his service in France’s unsuccessful campaign against Algerian insurgents, was a strong advocate of counterinsurgency doctrine. He wrote, “If the individual members of the organizations were of the same mind, if every organization worked according to a standard pattern, the problem would be solved. Is this not precisely what a coherent, well-understood, and accepted doctrine would tend to achieve?”

    Precisely.
    Continued at the link.

    Foreword by John A. Nagl to The U.S. Army/Marine Corps Counterinsurgency Field Manual
    Last edited by bhkad; 03-10-09 at 02:49 PM.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Pissed off because you couldn't defeat the Taliban in 7 years? Stand back and let someone else do the job.
    The soviets also failed.
    The British failed 5 different times in the 20th century.
    Countless other invading forces have failed to take care of Afghanistan.

    What makes you think a surge in troops will amount to ****?

    I support the war in Afghanistan, but only if you do it the way other people have been successful. By hiring local tribes to fight along side you as a mercenary army and having as little effect on the local people as possible.

    Obama is going in there with the same plan that Dick Cheney proposed, lets just hope General Petraeus convinces Obama to keep doing things his way. Going in there guns a blazing is what got those 20 civilians killed by a rocket not to long ago. People remember **** like that, and more of a presence will just push people toward the Taliban.

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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by thabigred View Post
    The soviets also failed.
    The British failed 5 different times in the 20th century.
    Countless other invading forces have failed to take care of Afghanistan.

    What makes you think a surge in troops will amount to ****?

    I support the war in Afghanistan, but only if you do it the way other people have been successful. By hiring local tribes to fight along side you as a mercenary army and having as little effect on the local people as possible.

    Obama is going in there with the same plan that Dick Cheney proposed, lets just hope General Petraeus convinces Obama to keep doing things his way. Going in there guns a blazing is what got those 20 civilians killed by a rocket not to long ago. People remember **** like that, and more of a presence will just push people toward the Taliban.
    The Taliban has several tribes and clans, some of whom we can make deals with.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    The Taliban has several tribes and clans, some of whom we can make deals with.
    Damn bkhad I never thought I would agree with you on these issues.

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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    The Taliban has several tribes and clans, some of whom we can make deals with.
    There are just as many tribes if not more that apposed the Taliban rule but were to small and to unwilling to come to terms to bring down the taliban.

    We bring them together against the taliban and teach them skills, there will be no need to have a huge surge.

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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Pissed off because you couldn't defeat the Taliban in 7 years? Stand back and let someone else do the job.

    Nope pissed off that after 7 years I once again have to witness jokes claiming we have lost and can't win.


    Same asinine BS I heard form the same assholes who to this day continue to claim Iraq is a failure...but are now in positions in which they are sending people to Iraq.


    Afghans do more then anyone in this portion of the war and yet its a given they will be blamed for the others POLITICIANS forcing them to run away.




    As for the subject itself Obama can go f himself with his double talk and BS.
    Last edited by Triad; 03-10-09 at 06:33 PM.

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    Re: Obama Ponders Outreach to Elements of the Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
    I'm a fan of Nagl's. I once exchanged a post with him on another forum.



    EDIT: Are you thinking of Galula?

    David Galula - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Thats it. Funny, they gave us that book at the combat advisors course and most of us packed it away, then when I started to get on the plane to Kuwait for phase 2, I didn't have a book so I broke it out... Best thing I could have done. Served me well at school... you know, this counter insurgency if spun right by the media will be some easy to sell strategy. I just hope Obama listens to Nagl. I have heard that he is, so... we'll see.

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