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Thread: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

  1. #51
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    If the greedy conservatives on wall street would stop shipping jobs out of the country, this might not be happening....
    Ever read Adam Smith?
    Anything from Milton Friedman?
    von Mises or Hayek?

    Let me ask you, if your locality decides to quadruple your taxes... and you could buy a house just down the street... bigger, cheaper, better and with 10% the taxes... would you move?

    Of course you would, and it's proven DemocRATS move like the plague... escaping the tax penalizing districts and bringing their disease with them.

    Moving down the street... That is what companies are doing and rightly so.

    You cannot force what you think is social justice on companies.

    Companies are in business, and the best thing you can do is be massively profitable.
    When the "Margin of Safety" is too low and "Level of Hassle" too high... you've just f***** the workers.

    The best thing is for businesses to leave and for the community to learn a lesson and provide a lesson to other localities.

    I love the fact Halliburton relocated its HQ to Dubai.
    Democrats just crapped all over them... and then are shocked when they pack up and move.
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-07-09 at 01:32 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  2. #52
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Ever read Adam Smith?
    Anything from Milton Friedman?
    von Mises or ]Hayek?
    I read Selma Hayek's breasts. Nice reading
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  3. #53
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    IMO, later data will be important in determining whether the ongoing increase in public assistance is largely related to the severe economic downturn that is taking place or the beginning of a shift in attitudes toward a greater propensity to seek government assistance. My guess is that it is the former situation--the economic contraction--is driving the numbers higher.

    Several things to be considered are:

    1. The U.S. is now highly likely to experience its worst post-World War II recession (magnitude and duration). The unemployment rate could climb to 9%-12% and underemployment for dislocated workers i.e., from the shrinking manufacturing sector and relatively inexperienced youth who will be entering the job market this year and next, will also be a major problem.

    2. In the run-up of the housing bubble, the propensity to save in the U.S. virtually disappeared as funds flowed into real estate and home equity loans provided a ready source of cash. Real estate appreciation seemed to make saving unnecessary. Of course, that was an unsustainable situation. Hence, when the bubble burst and later the macroeconomic contraction commenced, the lack of saving amplified the hardship confronting those losing jobs, etc.

    3. A fundamental realignment of U.S. industry remains plausible. The finance sector will likely emerge much smaller and account for a much smaller share of GDP than in the recent past. Synthetic finance, quantitative finance, among other subsectors will likely be much less important given the enormous flaws that were exposed and rediscovered understanding that human behavior, asymmetric information, externalities preclude a purely quantitative approach to risk management. That development will leave some highly talented, and specially-skilled persons with few opportunities outside of academe. The same holds true for other industries e.g., manufacturing-based ones. The chronic overcapacity of the U.S. auto industry is a thing of the past--at least for years or perhaps decades. What will happen to those who worked there and in supporting industries? Meanwhile there is some growth in health care-related industries. Even in February, that sector added another 32,000 jobs. Yet, one cannot seamlessly shift those from finance or manufacturing into health care. There is a mismatch of skillsets and experience.

    4. Given the employment situation described above and the rising tide of unemployed persons, an approach will need to be found to expedite people's return to employment as soon as the economy stabilizes and then returns to a growth trajectory. That growth trajectory will likely be much less robust than during past recessions given the nature of a post-housing bubble recovery. The patchwork employment services options in the U.S. (website, recruiters, other placement options) does not deal very effectively with the kind of employment situation described above nor provide meaningful options for fresh college graduates. In fact, the employment services industry is also shrinking in the current recession. That also limits its capabilities. Those shortcomings suggest that the unemployment rate might not fall very fast following the recession. Indeed, the so-called "jobless recovery" following the 1990-91 recession might offer a harbinger of what to expect in the early years of an economic recovery, and the duration might be longer if a fundamental economic restructuring unfolds.

    Having said that, well-positioned medium-sized firms could have a rare opportunity to use the current economic situation to successfully recruit high-caliber talent and freshly-minted Ivy League graduates whom they might ordinarily not have a chance to employ. That could also begin to shift the balance of growth to those companies relative to their older, larger, more troubled larger competitors.

    All said, my early guess is that the rising statistics reflect the reality of a severe recession and lack of saving that occurred during the run-up of the housing bubble. The combination of a fundamental economic restructuring at a rate beyond which was already occurring and patchwork employment services options could lead to a stickiness in the number of people receiving public assistance even after a recovery begins. I believe policymakers would do well to add a component aimed at helping train/match people with positions to the existing public assistance as a mechanism to speed the process of reducing overall public assistance once the recovery begins.

  4. #54
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    If the greedy conservatives on wall street would stop shipping jobs out of the country, this might not be happening....
    Damn! I thought NY city stunk with liberals.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

  5. #55
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    I read Selma Hayek's breasts. Nice reading
    ... architecture.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  6. #56
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post

    All said, my early guess is that the rising statistics reflect the reality of a severe recession and lack of saving that occurred during the run-up of the housing bubble. The combination of a fundamental economic restructuring at a rate beyond which was already occurring and patchwork employment services options could lead to a stickiness in the number of people receiving public assistance even after a recovery begins. I believe policymakers would do well to add a component aimed at helping train/match people with positions to the existing public assistance as a mechanism to speed the process of reducing overall public assistance once the recovery begins.
    What is the real solution?
    Not more government job matching blarney... damn, we have the internet.
    Telephone.
    It's not 1929.

    www.gotayob?.com...
    Then to the phone...
    Ring! Ring!
    Hello... you gotta Yob?

    No government necessary.
    What is necessary?

    Less government.
    Less Obama Intrusion.
    Less Marx.
    Less LBJ.
    Less FDR.

    In 1916, when the income tax was introduced it was for the wealthiest 1%.

    Now it's down to a fire fighter and a school teacher as wealthy.

    Something is wrong, and Obama is adding fuel to the fire.

    He is doing the opposite of what has been proven successful to move the economy.

    It's not complicated.
    Americans are the engine.
    Get out of the ****ing way.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  7. #57
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    It's not complicated.
    Americans are the engine.
    Get out of the ****ing way.
    Americans yes were the engine of disaster, their greed, over borrowing, speculation and gambling lead to the current collapse, not the government regulation. Actually if the government had stricter regulation this whole thing could have been avoided.

    The government need to create a long term engine for society to build around, a super engine that can never be broken, which ensure that the society around it also keeps prospering. We need to dispose of the whole capitalism model and mix capitalism with socialism and communism for it to work in the long term. None of these models can work by themselves, but together they could do miracles if put together the correct way. Agricultural subsidies for example is a typical communist idea that we have adopted in our western society, it would be disastrous to drop it. Free health care, welfare and unemployment for example are socialist ideas integrated into western society. We need more such programs and better programs and have them act as the engine we can all build a free market and capitalism model around.

    As for regulations it must be stricter in some areas and dropped altogether on other areas.
    Last edited by Maximus Zeebra; 03-07-09 at 02:31 PM.
    Europe is illegally occupied by the US

  8. #58
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus Zeebra View Post
    Americans yes were the engine of disaster, their greed, over borrowing, speculation and gambling lead to the current collapse, not the government regulation. Actually if the government had stricter regulation this whole thing could have been avoided.

    The government need to create a long term engine for society to build around, a super engine that can never be broken, which ensure that the society around it also keeps prospering. We need to dispose of the whole capitalism model and mix capitalism with socialism and communism for it to work in the long term. None of these models can work by themselves, but together they could do miracles if put together the correct way.
    No, it was socialism.
    Freddie and Fannie.

    Using bank loans as social programs.

    And for the trillions they have wasted on social engineering that would have had far more positive effect left in the hands of the people.

    This is where the Kanuckistani's cannot social engineer and therefore their banks remained in better shape.

    They don't have a culture they feel guilty about, have an ACORN, and therefore did not get into copying the US's perverse idea of forcing loans on folks that could not pay them back.

    THE DEMOCRATS IN G O V E R N M E N T
    Thank them.
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-07-09 at 02:36 PM.
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

  9. #59
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    I don't think we are totally on different pages here. I agree that there are people who are on the system long-term who can definately work (when economic times are better than this.) However, with an unemployment now over 8% with no end in sight, you can't deny that there is definately a need to help those who are TEMPORARILY unemployed NOW.
    We are on the same page for the most part.

    I'm one to think that we should encourage people to take care of themselves though.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat
    Well we did have food riots in the Great Depression. So the history for doing without safety-nets for food is not exactly a good one even in a wealthy country like ours.
    Our country is so different in some ways than we were in the WW2 era.

    I can't understand why the people of the wealthiest country on earth can't save for unexpected circumstances.

    I think that these social programs for the most part push people to spend and not save for rainy days.

    We need to get away from social programs to cure the ills of lousy behavior.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #60
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    Re: Record 31.8 million on food stamps

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    What is the real solution?
    Not more government job matching blarney... damn, we have the internet.
    Telephone.
    It's not 1929.

    www.gotayob?.com...
    Then to the phone...
    Ring! Ring!
    Hello... you gotta Yob?

    No government necessary.
    What is necessary?

    Less government.
    Less Obama Intrusion.
    Less Marx.
    Less LBJ.
    Less FDR.
    I'm not sure that many of the unemployed from, let's say, the manufacturing sector are sufficiently familiar with the Internet's job search features, much less a sufficient share of positions available through such sites as Careerbuilder, TheLadders, etc. have relevance to their skill sets.

    Furthermore, there is the issue of asymmetric information. What appears to be a "job ad" might, in fact, be a deceptive ad aimed at making a sales pitch for some product or service. One article on that matter was published in the February 17, 2009 issue of The Wall Street Journal: Fake Job Postings Dot Popular Job Boards - WSJ.com. Whether the existing patchwork framework, and one that is shrinking fairly rapidly at this time, provides a sufficient response to addressing the job-related consequences of the recession and later its aftermath will almost certainly become a subject for study by economists. However, policymakers who are elected to serve their constituents, do not have the liberty of leaving the matter solely to economic study. They are elected, in part, to be problem-solvers and to address issues that fall outside the parameters of economics e.g., the broader issue of public wellbeing.

    In any case, the current recession is not an ordinary manifestation of the business cycle. It is the result of fundamental flaws that developed over time in the economy (housing sector, overreliance on credit, unsustainable trade imbalance, etc.). A fundamental restructuring of the economy is a real possibility and some exceptional steps may be required to limit the risk that an enlarged permanent class of public assistance recipients would become an outcome.

    In my view, an investment in speeding up the process of assuring that today's unemployed do not become tomorrow's chronically unemployed (and long-term government assistance) makes far more sense than providing only public assistance and taking the real chance that the extraordinary economic unraveling underway and restructuring to come might create a new and fairly substantial permanent class of public assistance recipients.

    In the former case, government intervention would be targeted and temporary, aimed largely at providing a good that is in insufficient supply for structural reasons and helping accelerate people's moving off public assistance. If the latter approach is pursued and a permanently enlarged class of public aid recipients is the outcome, one will likely witness a permanently enlarged role of the public sector. That would entail higher taxes, higher spending, a greater risk of crowding out the private sector, and greater economic deadweight.

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