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Thread: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    As are Democrats. Some day you will understand that today's Democrats and Republicans are not so different.
    There is a profound difference in philosophy however; Republicans still profess a belief in Capital markets and reduced Government. Democrats on the other hand believe in massive Government spending and taxation of the very people who form capital and create jobs, demagogue capitalists with populist rhetoric and believe in creating a dependent class of citizens on the Government.

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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    There is a profound difference in philosophy however; Republicans still profess a belief in Capital markets and reduced Government. Democrats on the other hand believe in massive Government spending and taxation of the very people who form capital and create jobs, demagogue capitalists with populist rhetoric and believe in creating a dependent class of citizens on the Government.
    Yet they make a mockery of their party by passing stimulus bills and refunds.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Yet they make a mockery of their party by passing stimulus bills and refunds.
    And yet, the Republicans are the ones who continue to be impugned while Democrats get a free pass? Yes certain Republicans make a mockery of their party by voting for such legislation and earmarks in OUR opinion; but the alternative is to empower a party that has no qualms about it.

    Like I said, I find it hard to say I am Republican; I am Conservative who believes in the Liberalist philosophy that made this nation the greatest nation on earth. I choose the lesser of the two evils which is why I vote for candidates I have to hold my nose for.

    But with all this said, I also do not wallow in denial and vacuum of facts or reality. The Republicans have their warts, but the Democrat party has hidden their warts with canker sores.

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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So you're saying conservatives are hypocrites, got it.
    Of course, many Conservatives are hypocrites. Many Liberals are too.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Of course, many Conservatives are hypocrites. Many Liberals are too.
    Dana gets it.

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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Okay, and many of our Republican political leaders are right there with him with their pet projects. Which was my point. You painted this as the Republicans standing up to the out of control spending, I simply pointed out that as a "politics as usual", many Republicans are standing shoulder to shoulder with the Democrats on this massively out of control bill. They lack ONE Republican vote to make this happen. And that vote can be bought for about a dozen amendments or less.

    Yeah, Republicans are standing up to Obama's wasteful spending alright.
    Your point is a good one, and the very fact that both parties are ultimately concerned only with their own prosperity, and everything else being a secondary concern is not only obvious to anyone willing to actually pay attention without bias, but also the underlying cause of how we got to the disaster we are in today.

    Still it seems most are only too happy to sit back and root for their team, and almost everyone else just accepts trying to find the least of the evils to vote into office.

    Problem is that there is an unbelievable amount of power and dollars involved here, and this seems to overshadow any initial good moral intent of any lawmakers.

    So though it may seem to save us all a few hundred million in spending if there is opposition to the rampant spending we are seeing today from the democratic party (who seems to view their new majority and current economic conditions as a license to steal from the American public) is not only a laugh in comparison to the amounts being discussed, but also may end up being a total laugh as the opposition is "bought" with inclusions of their own desired pork.

    You can debate socialism all you like (I do not even care if you agree on the definition or not) but what we are seeing here is not truly socialism, and though it is obviously a move in that direction and a very serious attack on the very make up of our country and government it has many more potential problems than many are willing to admit to.

    The question should be is adding to the power of government and ever increasing its size while creating many new programs that are popular in socialist countries a good or bad thing for America, capitalism, and the American people?

    I believe to properly answer this question one needs to have a good understanding of just how our government works, how our tax system works, all the other ways our government creates revenue (I would be surprised if the majority of money used to support government came from income tax, or if the working class was not supplying the majority of this income), how things are actually done in politics (like how the ordeal with IL Gov. Blago is only politics as usual, and absolutely the norm and not the exception), how corporations have a large amount of clout in the creation of new laws, where the BIG money has gone, why two family members need to be working to achieve less than our grandparents, and exactly what is the long term plan for our country and who is making and going to prosper from this plan and who is not.

    Sound like a lot to think about all at once? I think it is as well, but if we want to be able to help ourselves improve our future we will need to understand all of this and more, and though we do not have to agree on every point etc we do need to accept the basics and why we have found our way to where we are if we are to expect to have any chance of making things better for the future.

    One other issue is that nothing worth having will come easy, and all sides and ways of thinking will need to give up something.

    Remember that those who have the advantage now have fought to get it, and will fight to maintain it to extremes I do not believe many would accept, and if we (the working class, and working poor) are to expect to get back anything we will need to fight for it.

    Now the question is just how hard are you willing to fight, how much time are you going to invest, and just how seriously are you going to attempt to fight for your way of life?

    This may sound a little odd (it did to me at first as well) but unless you like your wife having to work to be able to pay your bills and not live in the street, and love the idea of strangers raising your children, having the government run school system instill their beliefs into your children, risk losing everything you have managed to earn by allowing the current system of he with the most $$$ gets the laws he wants passed which will only lead to additional wasteful government spending (will trillions only be the beginning?) which will continue to whittle away at the American dream while our government continues to pander to the various communist and tyrant run countries that hold our debt.

    Too many people on both sides of the political divide, and way too many corporations have been selling the US down the river for too long while realizing gains for themselves that the average American would find unthinkable or unbelievable.

    Our system is and has been out of balance for a long time now, and it seems neither party is able to bring things back to being balanced. If our politicians can not or are just unwilling to make the hard choices to fix this problem (the one they engineered in the first place) then the responsibility will ultimately fall on the American public.

    If the politicians or the American public do not stand up to the challenge then we can expect more of the same of what we have today and whatever the balance of the river we are rolling down throws our way.

    How are you going to make a difference?
    "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds"
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    **Question Everything**

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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Quote Originally Posted by LennyD View Post
    Your point is a good one, and the very fact that both parties are ultimately concerned only with their own prosperity, and everything else being a secondary concern is not only obvious to anyone willing to actually pay attention without bias, but also the underlying cause of how we got to the disaster we are in today.

    Still it seems most are only too happy to sit back and root for their team, and almost everyone else just accepts trying to find the least of the evils to vote into office.

    Problem is that there is an unbelievable amount of power and dollars involved here, and this seems to overshadow any initial good moral intent of any lawmakers.

    So though it may seem to save us all a few hundred million in spending if there is opposition to the rampant spending we are seeing today from the democratic party (who seems to view their new majority and current economic conditions as a license to steal from the American public) is not only a laugh in comparison to the amounts being discussed, but also may end up being a total laugh as the opposition is "bought" with inclusions of their own desired pork.

    You can debate socialism all you like (I do not even care if you agree on the definition or not) but what we are seeing here is not truly socialism, and though it is obviously a move in that direction and a very serious attack on the very make up of our country and government it has many more potential problems than many are willing to admit to.

    The question should be is adding to the power of government and ever increasing its size while creating many new programs that are popular in socialist countries a good or bad thing for America, capitalism, and the American people?

    I believe to properly answer this question one needs to have a good understanding of just how our government works, how our tax system works, all the other ways our government creates revenue (I would be surprised if the majority of money used to support government came from income tax, or if the working class was not supplying the majority of this income), how things are actually done in politics (like how the ordeal with IL Gov. Blago is only politics as usual, and absolutely the norm and not the exception), how corporations have a large amount of clout in the creation of new laws, where the BIG money has gone, why two family members need to be working to achieve less than our grandparents, and exactly what is the long term plan for our country and who is making and going to prosper from this plan and who is not.

    Sound like a lot to think about all at once? I think it is as well, but if we want to be able to help ourselves improve our future we will need to understand all of this and more, and though we do not have to agree on every point etc we do need to accept the basics and why we have found our way to where we are if we are to expect to have any chance of making things better for the future.

    One other issue is that nothing worth having will come easy, and all sides and ways of thinking will need to give up something.

    Remember that those who have the advantage now have fought to get it, and will fight to maintain it to extremes I do not believe many would accept, and if we (the working class, and working poor) are to expect to get back anything we will need to fight for it.

    Now the question is just how hard are you willing to fight, how much time are you going to invest, and just how seriously are you going to attempt to fight for your way of life?

    This may sound a little odd (it did to me at first as well) but unless you like your wife having to work to be able to pay your bills and not live in the street, and love the idea of strangers raising your children, having the government run school system instill their beliefs into your children, risk losing everything you have managed to earn by allowing the current system of he with the most $$$ gets the laws he wants passed which will only lead to additional wasteful government spending (will trillions only be the beginning?) which will continue to whittle away at the American dream while our government continues to pander to the various communist and tyrant run countries that hold our debt.

    Too many people on both sides of the political divide, and way too many corporations have been selling the US down the river for too long while realizing gains for themselves that the average American would find unthinkable or unbelievable.

    Our system is and has been out of balance for a long time now, and it seems neither party is able to bring things back to being balanced. If our politicians can not or are just unwilling to make the hard choices to fix this problem (the one they engineered in the first place) then the responsibility will ultimately fall on the American public.

    If the politicians or the American public do not stand up to the challenge then we can expect more of the same of what we have today and whatever the balance of the river we are rolling down throws our way.

    How are you going to make a difference?
    I read your treatise and am not sure what your point is here Lenny; so let me ask you a few questions:

    (1) What is your notion about "balance" you talk about above?

    (2) What is the main cause of poverty in this nation in your opinion?

    (3) How do you think people who have been born to poverty, eventually rose above it?

    I am assuming your statements are about the haves vs. the have-nots.

  8. #58
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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    I find this argument amusing and trite as well; that because Republicans are doing it, this excuses the behavior.

    I watched this trite commentary on MSNBC the other day that claimed that 40% of the earmarks were Republican districts as if this somehow excuses the behavior.

    Yes, Republicans who add their earmarks are hypocrites, but what about the "candidate" that claimed this practice would cease when he became President?

    This is not a debate about Republican hypocrisy as much as Liberals want to divert the debate to it; this is about irresponsible Democrats who control the voting, control the legislative process and control the White House who continue to abuse the legislative process by inserting pet projects into bills without debate.

    I am hardly surprised to see you and other Liberals attempt to divert the debate back onto Republicans who currently cannot stop any legislation and are in the extreme minority and whine about their intransigence and refusal to go along and play the same old game.

    Fascinating that during Bush's Presidency Liberals whined about how the Republicans rubber stamped his agenda, along with a substantial amount of votes from democrats, but now thinks all legislation should be "rubber" stamped using the trite and overused partisan rhetoric that it is necessary to save the economy.

    Of course factual evidence of this is non-existent; but since when have the facts or reality ever impacted Liberal talking points and fear mongering?
    Excuse me, where did I ever say that "because Republicans are doing it, it excuses the behavior."

    Trite? How about you come after me over something I've actually said.
    *insert profound statement here*

  9. #59
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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So you're saying conservatives are hypocrites, got it.



    The Problem with this statement is that it demonstrates a blind loyalty to party...


    Both sides are hypocrites the difference right now is that many on the right are cheering when we stop acting like hypocrites and try to stall these spending bills. still hypocrites but doing the right thing now, even if for the wrong reason (political image)

    it's a start.... Obama also promised to reduced spending, but right now the dems are cheering for the biggest increase in spending ever....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Senate Republicans force delay on spending bill

    Why don't Republicans take the step of removing their earmarks from the spending bill? Then Democrats would follow suit and everyone would be happy.

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