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Thread: Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

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    Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

    Quacks have no business inside courtrooms. The fact this individual claims he was insane and some quacks claim he was insane at the time of the crime are not relevant to the fact he committed a crime and that there are victims who need justice.


    Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible
    Vince Li has been found not criminally responsible for the unprovoked killing and beheading of fellow passenger Timothy McLean on a Greyhound bus last summer.

    Manitoba Court of Queen's Bench Judge John Scurfield said Thursday that Li, 40, could not be found guilty of murder and is not criminally responsible for the crime because he was mentally ill at the time of the killing.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

    That's outrageous.

    OBL 11/24/02

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    Re: Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

    What is so terrible about this, other than the obvious, is that there is a real possibility this man could go free at some point and walk among society. I have no issue with the criminal insanity ruling, I have an issue with the fact that this man will not be segregated from society for the rest of his life. You don't cure the level of psychological issues this person has. You contain the person and try your best to manage their condition.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    What is so terrible about this, other than the obvious, is that there is a real possibility this man could go free at some point and walk among society.
    I understand this concern. It's expressed quite often. But I'm not aware of any crazy murderers who've been found not guilty by reason of insanity, then released back into society to commit more crazy murders in the future.

    If there are cases like this... I'd like to see them.


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    Re: Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    What is so terrible about this, other than the obvious, is that there is a real possibility this man could go free at some point and walk among society. I have no issue with the criminal insanity ruling, I have an issue with the fact that this man will not be segregated from society for the rest of his life. You don't cure the level of psychological issues this person has. You contain the person and try your best to manage their condition.
    The family who lost their loved one is sophisticated enough to understand that he is not responsible. However, they agree with you, that he should never be released. I agree with them on both counts.

    If the reports are accurate, the man was being "told by God" that McLean was an evil threat and must be eliminated. If he was truly convinced of this, then he is incapable of distinguishing delusion from reality, and actually did what he thought was best.

    The man is no more responsible for killing than a lightning strike that kills a person sitting quietly on their porch. Punishing such a person by putting that person among real criminals would just create another victim.

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    Re: Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    I understand this concern. It's expressed quite often. But I'm not aware of any crazy murderers who've been found not guilty by reason of insanity, then released back into society to commit more crazy murders in the future.

    If there are cases like this... I'd like to see them.

    Subsequent arrests of murder defendants adjudicated insane. From a police and psychology journal. Won't do you much good if you're not a subscriber, I'm just linking this to show you there is a history of it. Can I cite recent cases no...thank god. Is there a possibility? Absolutely. Is it probable...I don't think so. Not probable isn't good enough, especially for this family.

    My issue is that it is possible at all. It could happen. It might be 25 years down the road, but it could happen. That loop should be closed.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
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    Re: Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Subsequent arrests of murder defendants adjudicated insane. From a police and psychology journal. Won't do you much good if you're not a subscriber, I'm just linking this to show you there is a history of it. Can I cite recent cases no...thank god. Is there a possibility? Absolutely. Is it probable...I don't think so. Not probable isn't good enough, especially for this family.

    My issue is that it is possible at all. It could happen. It might be 25 years down the road, but it could happen. That loop should be closed.
    Well, let me understand your reasoning here.

    If I read your earlier post correctly, if someone is 'not guilty by reason of insanity,' they should be treated, not punished.

    If treated, and cured, are you suggesting they should remain incarcerated?

    And if so, why? Don't you believe the doctors?


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    Re: Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Well, let me understand your reasoning here.

    If I read your earlier post correctly, if someone is 'not guilty by reason of insanity,' they should be treated, not punished.
    I believe they should be segregated from society. The goal is to protect society. Punishment or treatment is integral to the sentence rendered upon the offender.

    If treated, and cured, are you suggesting they should remain incarcerated?
    I believe that if you murder another person, insane or not, you should be segregated from society for life. The method of segregation can either be in a correctional facility or a mental facility. The important thing is that you are segregated.

    Now, I can see an exception for someone that murders someone while they are under the influence of a substance they didn't voluntarily ingest or subject themselves to, or say a reaction to a medication they were prescribed (I'm not talking Twinkie Defense). That's temporary, not indicative of an advanced mental disorder, and effectively mitigates their culpability. Those would be very rare instances.

    I have little faith in any doctor who proclaims to have cured someones mental disorders that were so advanced they drove a person to murder another person. Right or wrong, I simply won't accept it. I had the unenviable task of dealing with at least five EDP's who murdered people in my career. I will never believe that they are going to be "cured."
    Last edited by Lerxst; 03-06-09 at 02:49 AM.
    *insert profound statement here*

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