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Thread: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Please do not feed the trolls.
    When you have nothing left, you call me names and refuse to counter the debate.

    What is a right MG? Let's hear your definition.

    (I'm betting you cannot do it without injecting your feelings into it.)
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Does it have to be in the Constitution in order for it to be a right?
    In America... yeah kinda does lady. If you don't get why I say that....
    Last edited by Renae; 03-06-09 at 01:37 PM.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Of course it changes what you said. You are saying that doctors and hospitals treat "at their own risk," essentially. That is extremely non-capitalistic.
    Its VERY capitalistic and VERY free-market.

    If you choose to go into business as a doctor or as a hospital, you know that some of your services may be free. If you aren't willing to run that risk, then you don't go into that business.

    There's nothing less 'capitalist' -- that is, less free-market -- than a 3rd party payee.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Its VERY capitalistic and VERY free-market.

    If you choose to go into business as a doctor or as a hospital, you know that some of your services may be free. If you aren't willing to run that risk, then you don't go into that business.

    There's nothing less 'capitalist' -- that is, less free-market -- than a 3rd party payee.
    So, then lets say we have it your way. So, doctors take the risk and people do not get medical attention that they cannot afford. How long before the number of doctors diminish due to lower wages versus debt taken in becoming a doctor and there is less access to healthcare.

    My main gripe with your argument is that in order for it to work, people must die as we wait for the market to adjust. That is profit over people and I can never see money over human life. I believe in capitalism, but it is a philosophy, not a law of the world as is death. No price should ever be placed on the lives of people in a civilized society so that people can profit on it.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Well the market works in that favor as well. If the claims issue is as bad as you say it could be(and it does happen), then the employer can change companies at any time, including changing back to the other provider that they may have liked better. There is nothing stopping an employer from changing insurance companies, whenever they want to. For any business, its up to them to decide whats most important, and they need to have the flexibility to change whenever they need to, when circumstances arise that affect their ability to do business.

    But there is one thing I would like to see wiped out. The idea behind preferred providers. I say if you have an insurance plan, from a reputable provider(insurance companies are rated by AM Best), then there should be no change in your deductible or co-pay requirements. It shouldn't matter which doctor or hospital you go to, and the regional preferences of health insurance companies just doesn't make sense to me. Why should one pay for health coverage, and then be penalized for using it somewhere other than one certain hospital system?
    Someone other that me was claiming that it is a big problem. I was acknowledging that it does happen especially with some companies and, IMO, if the consumer was paying for their own insurance those companies would be quickly weeded out.

    With the employer providing the insurance, the healthcare consumer loses control of what they need for coverage and any input into picking companies that provide the service level they want.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    So, then lets say we have it your way. So, doctors take the risk and people do not get medical attention that they cannot afford. How long before the number of doctors diminish due to lower wages versus debt taken in becoming a doctor and there is less access to healthcare.
    The free market, through reduced demand, will eventually lower the cost of their education. Anyting else artificially inflates prices.

    My main gripe with your argument is that in order for it to work, people must die as we wait for the market to adjust. That is profit over people and I can never see money over human life
    And yet, you support plans that guarantee higher costs - in order to guarantee profit for hospitals and doctors - and force people to pay for the health care of others in order to create it.

    As soon as you are no longer responsible for paying for your health care, health care costs go up. If you want to reduce health care costs, you increase free-market forces by reducing the number of people that do not directly pay for their health care.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 03-06-09 at 02:02 PM.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    I have issue with American Pharmaceuticals in a major way. Just as I don't blame canadians coming down here for good healthcare, I don't blame Americans for getting meds from Canada.
    Americans do come up here for healthcare here, too. Really.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    So, then lets say we have it your way. So, doctors take the risk and people do not get medical attention that they cannot afford. How long before the number of doctors diminish due to lower wages versus debt taken in becoming a doctor and there is less access to healthcare.

    My main gripe with your argument is that in order for it to work, people must die as we wait for the market to adjust. That is profit over people and I can never see money over human life. I believe in capitalism, but it is a philosophy, not a law of the world as is death. No price should ever be placed on the lives of people in a civilized society so that people can profit on it.
    Really? So you are saying that anything that someone makes a profit from should not be allowed if someone might die as a result?

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Americans do come up here for healthcare here, too. Really.
    I would like to see evidence of that if you mean anyone other than deadbeats.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Awesome question. The answer is no, because the Constitution does not bestow any rights. Surprise, the Bill of Rights is really a misnomer, because it merely declares limits on Congress with regard to certain inalienable, existing rights.
    Thanks for that.


    You should have said American public. Because it is recouped through increased healthcare prices, not taxes.
    Right. So American pay the burden indirectly. Same thing, is it not?


    The true answer is no. It may sounds heartless, but the the Constitution doesn't have a heart. That's up to the public at large.
    I appreciate your honesty. As you know, I personally do believe it's a right, and there is no doubt that that is the fundamental question.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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