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Thread: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I do not see what it is you are seeing, but tell me then, how do you think healthcare should be remedied. If it continues as is, then companies will no longer be capable of providing their employees coverage, and no one can afford the rates on their own.
    If no one can afford the insurance rates, the insurance companies will go out of business. This will force health care costs down.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If no one can afford the insurance rates, the insurance companies will go out of business. This will force health care costs down.
    Forcing insurance companies out of business will not reduce the costs that hospitals charge for services. The average ER visit costs $6000 and insurance providers pay only a fraction of that amount as per their agreements with healthcare providers. Should doctors go to school and acquire all of the debt just to practice medicine for free?

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I do not see what it is you are seeing, but tell me then, how do you think healthcare should be remedied. If it continues as is, then companies will no longer be capable of providing their employees coverage, and no one can afford the rates on their own.
    I think alot of people agree on having something be done. I'm certainley one of them myself and have offered up some ideas or areas I think need to be looked at. They are in this thread. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we have to embrace UHC. I don't know if Keyorthe embraces any of those ideas, but they have been present in this overall discussion, by many people.
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    If no one can afford the insurance rates, the insurance companies will go out of business. This will force health care costs down.
    You'll have to explain that one to me.
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Forcing insurance companies out of business will not reduce the costs that hospitals charge for services.
    Sure it will. Helath care charges will drop to whatever the market will bear; if the bill is paid by the end-user (the patient), it will drop even further.

    You can put wehatever price tag you want on a commodity -- if that price is too high, people won't buy it and you will be forced to adjust your price (assuming that you want to stay in business).

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Sure it will. Helath care charges will drop to whatever the market will bear; if the bill is paid by the end-user (the patient), it will drop even further.

    You can put wehatever price tag you want on a commodity -- if that price is too high, people won't buy it and you will be forced to adjust your price (assuming that you want to stay in business).

    Healthcare is not a commodity, it is a necessity. People will not quit getting sick because insurance companies go out of business, they will just acquire medical debt, or the government will indeed step in a that point and UHC will be achieved.

    The solution is Preventative Healthcare!!! Insurance companies will have to say good-bye to the extreme profits that allow them to give CEO's like Larry Glasscock of Anthem, $4million annual bonuses while shipping jobs overseas. At the same time, insurance companies, as Cap. C. said, dictate how medicine is practiced. If private insurance were to take the approach of dental insurance for example, and provide free preventative medicine, then costs would go down overall as people would not wait until they have full-blown cancer before they seek costly treatment.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    The hippocratic oath, so far as I know, is not covered or discussed in the Constitution, therefore it is not a right, but rather a declaration from within the medical community.
    Does it have to be in the Constitution in order for it to be a right?

    If hospitals treat anyone who needs to be treated, then who pays for it? My guess... American taxpayers.

    So again I ask... is healthcare a right for every American? It's either a yes or a no. If it's a no, they you're current system is the way to go. Insurance companies can decided what is allowed based-on a person's coverage.

    And for those that do not have any insurance, the taxpayer foots the bill, which is kinda rediculous when you think about it.


    UHC is not needed for them to uphold their Hippocratic oath.
    Right. But it's still taxpayers that pay, no? And--bottom line-- many who do not have insurance, do fall through the cracks. You and I both know that. They delay seeing a doctor because they do not want to go through the ordeal of paperwork, and being grilled for money cuz I do know that's what happens.

    Also I'd like to hear the argument that a UHC system would be more efficient in the delivery of healthcare to individuals in a non-life threatening situation, than the payor system.
    The Euro nations are good with this. Canada, no. Yet ask a Canadian what's the most important Canadian right, and most will tell you our healthcare.

    And why do people assume the US will do it better? Have you ever been here in the US, to fill out paperowrk for any government related benefit? Its crazy the amount of paper work one has to go through. I refuse to go to the VA hospital system for just that reason.
    Me, I have a healthcard. I flash it when I go see a doc, and that's the last I have to deal with anything. Really. And you don't have to fill out any paperwork through your insurance?


    My private hospital delivers superior care, with quicker efficiency than the government one I would have access to. During active duty military service, I basically had what amounts to UHC. I didn't have to have any insurance, but it took me 4 months before i could get in to see about getting a contact prescription. The next time I needed one, I just went to an eye doctor and paid out of pocket and had my contacts that day. I've been on both sides of the issue, and the private industry far outpaces the government one here in America.
    UHC doesn't have to be that way. Seems to me your military does a poor job of it.

    I know Canadians go down to the Rochester Clinic in Minnesota, and pay out of pocket, for the expediency their government cannot provide. If we adopt a UHC system, where are you guys going to go for expedient care on non-life threatening issues? Cause we ain't going to have it anymore.
    Yes, that does happen. Just like we get Yanks up here to buy meds and use our Healthcare. Interesting, eh?
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Healthcare is not a commodity, it is a necessity.
    Health Care is service - a commodity, like any other service. That you call it 'necessary' doesnt change that, and doent remove it from the same market forces that govern the 'cost' of any other commodity.

    People will not quit getting sick because insurance companies go out of business
    No, they wont. What they WILL do is pay for their health care our of their pocket if they can; if they cannot, they won't get any health care,

    Like any other service, if the price is too high, people wont buy it. This will force the price down to the point where there are enogh customers to keep the industry afloat.

    -Anything- that puts the burden of payment on someone other than the end-user only acts to drive prices higher.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Health Care is service - a commodity, like any other service. That you call it 'necessary' doesnt change that, and doent remove it from the same market forces that govern the 'cost' of any other commodity.


    No, they wont. What they WILL do is pay for their health care our of their pocket if they can; if they cannot, they won't get any health care,

    Like any other service, if the price is too high, people wont buy it. This will force the price down to the point where there are enogh customers to keep the industry afloat.

    -Anything- that puts the burden of payment on someone other than the end-user only acts to drive prices higher.

    I disagree, there are many people now that have no insurance nor can afford to pay out-of-pocket, and yet go to the hospitals everyday. That is a big factor in driving healthcare costs up. And those without insurance in your scenario as well will not go to seek preventative medicine, but they will still go for medical emergencies and when the develop severe conditions. Anyone is going to take their child to the doctor when the break an arm, whether they have insurance or not will not be a concern. Thus, costs will still be high and government will take over completely.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    If hospitals treat anyone who needs to be treated, then who pays for it? My guess... American taxpayers.
    The hospital. And then the cost gets subrogated back to the insurance companies, by charging more for procedures to the insurance companies than they would an individual that could pay out of pocket, and that ultimatley leads to an increase in premium for insurance holders, so eventually the cost works its way back to the purchaser of insurance.


    Me, I have a healthcard. I flash it when I go see a doc, and that's the last I have to deal with anything. Really. And you don't have to fill out any paperwork through your insurance?
    No, I do not fill out any paperwork through my insurance. It has to be filled out to receive it initially, but thats it. If I go to the hospital, I give somebody my insurance card, they take down the relevant information, and then at some point, I receive a bill from the hospital for my responsibility towards the cost(because my deductible or co-pay maximum has not been met) and I will receive a statement from my insurance company showing how much they paid for my treatment and where I stand in regards to my deductible being met, co-pay requirements, and how much further I have until I reach my max out of pocket limit. Anything beyond the out of pocket limit, is picked up 100% by the insurance company up to the policy limit of coverage.

    UHC doesn't have to be that way. Seems to me your military does a poor job of it.
    Thats because its how our government works.

    Yes, that does happen. Just like we get Yanks up here to buy meds and use our Healthcare. Interesting, eh?
    I have issue with American Pharmaceuticals in a major way. Just as I don't blame canadians coming down here for good healthcare, I don't blame Americans for getting meds from Canada.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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