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Thread: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

  1. #31
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    My problem with this is not that Obama wants to do something about the Health Care system, my problem is that he is using the same fear type tactics that Bush did to get things he wants done.

    If anything this needs EXTREME discussion, from all sides.

    Obama, stop playing the fear tactics on the economy.

    Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system - CNN.com
    I do not agree that he is using fear, I think that this country finally has a that president is finally willing to call a spade a spade. Healthcare costs are out of control and action must be taken.

    It seems to me that people regularly are upset whenever any president attempts to act quickly on their agenda. This was true of Bush and will be the same for Obama. Yet, the Executive Branch is not to be as slow moving as the Legislative. Even in the Federalist Papers, Hamilton describes the role of the executive in, I believe 80, and says that the branch should be swift moving to act and lead the country.

    Obama is simply doing just that, acting on the things that must be done. It will not happen in two-weeks, as Congress must act as well, and in accordance with their nature they will move much more slowly. I can only see improvements to the healthcare system result of all of this, as all sides are at the table.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Deregulate? If you mean bring competition, I agree. Let the insurance companies compete against the most efficient health care system in the country.
    That's part of it. Get the AMA's influence in limiting med school enrollment by federal law out of the picture as well to get rid of the artificial doctor shortages as well, also, tort reform in what constitutes a meritorious healthcare related lawsuit. Regulation is good, overregulation as it stands now, not good.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Health care is NOT a right. It IS a privilege. That's the problem with you PeteEu, you mistake reality for Utopian fantasy.

    Just like you do NOT have a right to a home, you have the privilege of buying a home.

    You do not have the RIGHT to a car, you have the privilege to one.
    Ahem, 'scuse me, but that IS NOT FACT.

    See, I'm one of those that view healthcare as a right. Your analogy fails miserably because like you, I don't agree that a car and house are a right. If someone is in dire need of a doctor, I could not morally allow that NOT to happen. If you have no problem letting them die, then you'll have to live with that decision. As for me, I cannot. It's that simple.

    If someone is in dire need of a car, I will tell them to take the bus.

    If someone is in dire need of a house, I will tell them to go to a shelter or rent.

    See the difference?
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The problem with the health care industry isn't too much regulation, it's not enough. I am not for nationalized health care. However, the excesses, manipulations, and control that insurance companies have over a provider's ability to treat their patients is not only a major problem procedural wise, but a huge problem cost wise. Some things that need to be regulated to fix the health care system are:

    Tort reform
    Health care decisions placed in the provider's hands, not the insurance company's
    Simple, universal form/payment systems
    Elimination of pre-existing condition limitation when switching insurance

    I'm sure there are other issues that need regulation. Unfortunately, I only see a half hearted effort on the Obama administration to address these complicated issues. Seems like he's going for the quick fix to gain points with the public.
    I think we do have overregulation, but only because it seems that where we do regulate we do so incorrectly. I agree with everything you have listed which you feel needs changing.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Ahem, 'scuse me, but that IS NOT FACT.

    See, I'm one of those that view healthcare as a right. Your analogy fails miserably because like you, I don't agree that a car and house are a right. If someone is in dire need of a doctor, I could not morally allow that NOT to happen. If you have no problem letting them die, then you'll have to live with that decision. As for me, I cannot. It's that simple.

    If someone is in dire need of a car, I will tell them to take the bus.

    If someone is in dire need of a house, I will tell them to go to a shelter or rent.

    See the difference?
    People in dire need of a doctor aren't refused treatment. Even in our system. Hippocratic oath and all.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

  6. #36
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    Just because you have checks, doesn't mean there is money in the account.
    No, no, no...

    Not to the lib.

    Checks = money.
    Loans = charity.
    Responsibility = Collectivism
    Cuts = Spending

    It takes a village idiot to care for the village, and we've done elected are-selves one.

    Can't wait to see which failed systems our village leader is going to model this hocus pocus after.

    Iwill we be graced by one of his grade school modeled community organizer pow-wows, where all break up into little groups and discuss what super duper ideas they have for our lives and livelihoods?

    Or will it be modeled after Hillary's Stalin like stink tank? Where any of the 500 who reveal any of the plan... will be shot!
    The Clintons are what happens...
    when you have NO MORAL COMPASS.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    The problem with insurance and insurance companies is that people don't pick their own. Their employer picks it. Under the current system in the US, there is very little competition in group health insurance that has anything to do with what is best from a consumer's POV. Although the comsumer has very little say in the insurance their employer selects, they are paying for it. It is a cost of employing a person.

    Group insurance is subject to all kinds of mandates. For example, pregnancy coverage is always included even if there is no possibility of any of the group becoming pregnant. In some jurisdictions, In Vitro Fertilization coverage is mandated. Having a baby may be very important to a woman but I don't see how her wanting it should translate into everyone else having to pay higher insurance. In some, athletic trainer coverage is mandated. Does anyone want to try to explain why everyone should have to pay higher insurance so a few could have a personal trainer?

    Some years ago, group coverage was much cheaper than an individual policy. Now, because of mandates and other regulations required for employer paid group policies, you can get individual insurance cheaper even though the administrative and sales costs for the individual policy is much higher.

    If a person was picking their own insurance, most would shop for the coverage they wanted at the best price they could get. Insurance companies would have to compete on price and quality. Slow pay or denial of payment would become significant in a person choosing a company. Some companies would also offer continuing coverage as a way to get people to change.

    There are some insurance companies that pay promptly and only deny claims when there is a valid reason. There are others that routinely deny payment or are just slow pay as a way of reducing cost. With employer paid insurance, the employer's goal is to get the lowest cost insurance that will still be good enough, or at least sound good enough, to let them attract and keep employees. The individual employee rarely has any say in the coverage or the company's payment tendencies.

    IMO, employers should not be in the business of brokering insurance for their employees. Everyone should buy their own the same why they buy a car or the insurance for that car.

    For those that cannot get private insurance because of pre-existing conditions, the government should provide some means for them to get coverage for those specific conditions.

    For those that truly cannot afford insurance the government should provide some means for them to pay for it but let them choose the company and coverage and provide some sort of incentive for them to make wise choices.

    Concerning CMS (Medicare, Medicaid, etc), if it is so great, why are so many doctors opting out? For some specialties, it may be fine but for others it is a disaster. Many practices in some specialties simply do not take CMS paid patients. One of the services we provide is giving the practice the ability to track their costs and expenses with filtering, one of which is the payor. It is very unusual that they are not shocked when they see the numbers from CMS cases. They usually know that CMS pay at a lower rate but its a real eye-opener when they see the actual payments vs their expenses. In some specialties they always lose money on CMS cases.

    As an example, CMS pays about 15% of what private payors pay for anesthesia services. They do not cover the cost of the provider. The business has to take the loss to provide the service. If they do not have a large percentage of CMS paid patients, they will eat it as a cost of doing business at that hospital/surgery center. When an anesthesia group is bidding to provide the coverage for a hospital, one of their main considerations is the payor mix. If there is high percentage of CMS patients many groups will either decline to even bid or will require a stipend from the hospital.

    As long as the consumer is not paying the bill, either directly or though their choice of insurance, there is no incentive for them to be concerned about cost. I would bet almost everyone would be driving a more expensive car if they could pick whatever they wanted and someone else would pay for it.

    For those that do not believe in competition, spare me. We will never agree, so why engage.

  8. #38
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Ahem, 'scuse me, but that IS NOT FACT.

    See, I'm one of those that view healthcare as a right. Your analogy fails miserably because like you, I don't agree that a car and house are a right. If someone is in dire need of a doctor, I could not morally allow that NOT to happen. If you have no problem letting them die, then you'll have to live with that decision. As for me, I cannot. It's that simple.

    If someone is in dire need of a car, I will tell them to take the bus.

    If someone is in dire need of a house, I will tell them to go to a shelter or rent.

    See the difference?
    And if someone is in dire need for a doctor, I will tell them to go to a public hospital. There, they will be treated for free. The only caveat is they will probably end up waiting 2-3 hours to see the doctor, just like people do in countries that have UHC.

    I believe a great deal of our health care problems could be solved by enacting the following simple laws:

    1. Enact tort reform so that doctors don't feel compelled to have every imaginable and expensive test performed just so they don't have to sit in front of a jury while a lawyer grills them on why they didn't get useless tests performed.

    2. Allow the doctors to deduct the cost of providing free health care from their income. I believe doctors would gladly provide free health care if they could at least recoup some of the cost of doing so.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    People in dire need of a doctor aren't refused treatment. Even in our system. Hippocratic oath and all.

    Right.

    So IT IS a right. Aint that the fundamental root of it all?

    So change your system, and save yourselves a ton of administrative costs. It's your opportunity to do it better than anywhere else in the world, because you have the luxury of taking notes from all other industrialized countries. This is why I think Obama is moving way too fast.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

  10. #40
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Everyone has the right to health care, just as everyone has the right to a house and food and clothing.

    The government exists to protect that right -- to make sure that people are not denied those things based on race, sex, religion, etc.

    The government does NOT exist to provide you with the means to exercise those, or any other, rights.

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