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Thread: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Was it not just the other day a US republican stated that healthcare coverage was a privilege not a right? Shows the attitude towards your fellow man there.. heartless.

    Problem with this debate is that it is buried in half truths, distortions, omissions and petty partisans bull**** than the facts.. and that is just from the anti UHC people..
    Then why don't you become a US citizen and help pay up?
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I think if Obama sent you a personal check for a million dollars, you would find a reason to complain about it.
    If Obama sent me a cheque for a million dollars, I probably wouldn't cash it because the cost would be too high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    You don't understand why government health care is bad.

    It is not just about cost. It is also about time to receive service.
    And for more information health insurance companies are subject to regulations that medicare isn't.

    Your going to be hard pressed to defend government health care with facts.
    There are problems with both government run and private health care...
    With government they are stuck within a 'budget' for everyones health care, and the help each individual gets is reduced... where private health care you get better treatment if you can pay for it.

    So, a combination system, would have to be ideal... perhaps all generic health care is covered, so they would treat you rather than let you die... but having the private care option for specialists and the like.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Then why don't you become a US citizen and help pay up?
    Thanks for proving my point. on the debate antics of the right and the anti UHC people.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    There are problems with both government run and private health care...
    With government they are stuck within a 'budget' for everyones health care, and the help each individual gets is reduced... where private health care you get better treatment if you can pay for it.

    So, a combination system, would have to be ideal... perhaps all generic health care is covered, so they would treat you rather than let you die... but having the private care option for specialists and the like.
    Oh you mean like UHC in Europe!
    PeteEU

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The problem with the health care industry isn't too much regulation, it's not enough. I am not for nationalized health care. However, the excesses, manipulations, and control that insurance companies have over a provider's ability to treat their patients is not only a major problem procedural wise, but a huge problem cost wise. Some things that need to be regulated to fix the health care system are:

    Tort reform
    Health care decisions placed in the provider's hands, not the insurance company's
    Simple, universal form/payment systems
    Elimination of pre-existing condition limitation when switching insurance

    I'm sure there are other issues that need regulation. Unfortunately, I only see a half hearted effort on the Obama administration to address these complicated issues. Seems like he's going for the quick fix to gain points with the public.
    I'll go over some of these things again, as I have done a few times.

    I agree that there needs to be more regulation in the healthcare system, not less, but only in some areas. But the focus needs to be in the relationship between the provider and insurer, because this is a two way street. Yes, insurance providers do have people looking at treatments and rejecting payment of those treatments to the provider, based on what they believe to be treatments that are unecessary. While its true that these people do not see the patient, the treatment is reviewed by a liscenced medical professional. The insurers pay good money to these people. In the case of an RN, he/she could make well more than they could working at a hospital. However, providers are more willing to do "more tests" for insured patients, than they will for uninsured patients. Because the insurance companies have the deep pockets. This back and forth fight between health insurer, and provider over what is necessary, is a HUGE part of the problem IMO. This is an area that needs regulation. However, it is my opinion that the regulation needs to come from the states and not the federal government. Insurance laws are written by state legislatures and are overseen and enforced by a commisioner of insurance in each state. Devising a national regulatory system would infringe on the ability for states to retain control over the health care providers and insurers under their rule.

    The payment situation is absurd, and its because of the back and forth struggle between insurer and provider. I received a bill for $350 almost a year after my son was born, from my wifes anethesia. I called to find out why I was getting a bill for $350 dollars, since we hadn't been to the hospital for nearly a year. Supposedly there was a dispute between the two that had to be settled before they could bill us. Now thats not a huge bill in this case, but its an inconvience for sure.

    If we were to remove the stipulation that pre-existing conditions have to be covered, then insurers will have to be allowed to charge additional premium because of pre-existing conditions. Insurance by definition is the transfer of risk. The greater the risk they assume, the greater the premium they charge. Thats the insurance market in a nutshell. The reason they do not cover pre-existing conditions, is because they are trying to keep the premiums lower. Anybody who seeks to reform this, had better be careful because if they try to be noble and force insurers to cover pre-existing, and deny them the ability to charge for it, will seriously screw everything up and insurance companies would either collapse(more unemployment for you to deal with Mr. President) or they would find a way to increase premium in an "unrelated" way, to cover costs.

    Also I remember reading on Obama's website during the campaign season, that he would essentially remove the cap on insurance policies. I do not know if he still seeks that, but that would be a disaster of epic proportions. As I said before, insurance is a transfer of risk. If we tell insurance companies they must take on an infinite amount of risk, what do you think that will do to premiums? ALL insurance policies, regardless of what kind of insurance it is, has a policy limit. The higher the limit, the higher the premium. Insurance companies have deep pockets, but not that deep.
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Oh you mean like UHC in Europe!
    I'm not sure... I was thinking like the health insurance aspect stays more or less the same, but where those that can't afford wouldn't be left on the street to die either...

    If that's like UHC in europe then it's probably a bad idea :P (not because european health care sucks, I'm saying just cause everywhere is a pretty sh&%^y system, and so it would take something new and outside the box to fix it)

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Was it not just the other day a US republican stated that healthcare coverage was a privilege not a right? Shows the attitude towards your fellow man there.. heartless.

    Problem with this debate is that it is buried in half truths, distortions, omissions and petty partisans bull**** than the facts.. and that is just from the anti UHC people..
    Not heartless.
    Heartless is places like Kanuckistan where you have no choice.
    Where waiting lists substitute as "care".

    Medical is a business. Not a right.
    You pay and you get.
    Those that don't have no right to complain about the service others are paying for them to receive.
    They should be thanked profusely, not pissed on.

    The best systems are those free of government intervention.
    Where competition drives down cost and improves services.

    I know it's tough for a Euro to understand.
    You folks wait 30 minutes for service in a half empty restaurant.
    Last edited by zimmer; 03-06-09 at 09:30 AM.
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by WI Crippler View Post
    WTF is a "health-care czar"?



    Later it explains that this "czar" will be the point person to discuss options with Congress. Is the H&HS secretary position not allowed to speak to Congress? Here's a genius idea for cutting back government spending. Quit creating duplicate positions. We didn't need a war czar(because we have a Sec Def) and we don't need a healthcare czar(because we have a Sec of HHS).

    I have a feeling Obama is going to try to fix everything, and end up fixing nothing. I mean, I'm not against healthcare reform and I have outlined where i think problems are many times in the past. But how much money does Obama think we can spend on everything?
    Well said, Crip and let me add that I think he's trying to do way too much, way too fast. Jeeper, maybe he IS believing all the hype that he is the messiah.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Was it not just the other day a US republican stated that healthcare coverage was a privilege not a right? Shows the attitude towards your fellow man there.. heartless.

    Problem with this debate is that it is buried in half truths, distortions, omissions and petty partisans bull**** than the facts.. and that is just from the anti UHC people..
    Health care is NOT a right. It IS a privilege. That's the problem with you PeteEu, you mistake reality for Utopian fantasy.

    Just like you do NOT have a right to a home, you have the privilege of buying a home.

    You do not have the RIGHT to a car, you have the privilege to one.


    People seem to think that because it's a an important part of life, to see a doctor, to live in a house and to drive a car, that it should be given to you.
    The belief that one should work hard and manage their money and their time towards ensuring that they have these vital things has given way to the poisonous belief that one is entitled to certain things, and that the government should provide it.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy
    Disagree because of my qualifier. If you have insurance and switch companies for whatever reason, the pre-existing condition limitation should not apply. If you are getting first time insurance, I agree with your position.
    If you have standard health insurance and start coverage with another company within 63 days, there are no pre-existing condition limitations. The new company is required to treat your illness as a covered illness. If you wait until 64 days, you're screwed.

    That's why you have to be careful when you change employment. If your new employer has a waiting period that could extend beyond 63 days, you should always get Cobra coverage from your old emplyer so that no pre-existing limitations will apply.
    Last edited by Gill; 03-06-09 at 11:10 AM.

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