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Thread: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

  1. #101
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    *shakes head*

    No need to be snarky, TOJ.

    Let's start with lazy. It's a pretty broad assumption, don't you think? Lazy as in not wanting to work? Lazy in someone being a couch potato? And what does that have to do in relation getting healthcare in Canada?


    One who does not pay debts. I'm asking which debts???? Their bills, their mortgage, their Visa???? So according to you, everyone that has debt is a deadbeat.
    Only if they don't pay their debts.

    Sorry for wanting clarification.

    .
    Damn, reading comprehension not a priority I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009
    dead·beat 1 (děd'bēt') Pronunciation Key
    n.
    One who does not pay one's debts.
    A lazy person; a loafer.
    Does not pay ones debts does not mean someone who has debt.

  2. #102
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Canadians will also say their healthcare is "free." If you want to play semantics, go nuts.

    Bottom line is Canadians do not get turned away from any hospital or clinic. We expect to recieve care each and every time.
    And you have to wait and wait.

    How is that any different from not being insured?

    Would you buy car insurance if you couldn't file your claim and be settled in the same month?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02
    I do not see what it is you are seeing, but tell me then, how do you think healthcare should be remedied. If it continues as is, then companies will no longer be capable of providing their employees coverage, and no one can afford the rates on their own.
    Nice dodge! The major issues concerning health care costs and their fixes have already been listed earlier in this thread. Go back and read some of them for a more indepth understanding.

    Why is it the company's responsibility to cover their workers? Thats a benefit, not a right. Saying that you can't afford health care on your own is not misleading, its a boldfaced LIE. Even with my poor paycheck I can afford to dump $174 a month for coverage and future upgrade bonuses for a future family. Maybe you meant if you have heavy pre-conditions, in which case you'll be paying out the nose when you START with a new policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    The solution is Preventative Healthcare!!! Insurance companies will have to say good-bye to the extreme profits that allow them to give CEO's like Larry Glasscock of Anthem, $4million annual bonuses while shipping jobs overseas. At the same time, insurance companies, as Cap. C. said, dictate how medicine is practiced. If private insurance were to take the approach of dental insurance for example, and provide free preventative medicine, then costs would go down overall as people would not wait until they have full-blown cancer before they seek costly treatment.
    Teeth are alot simpler than a body. Preventitive Healthcare is going to involve telling you what you can or cannot do or risk revoking your health insurance. Its going to mandate that patients with existing conditions will go where they are told to go, and take what treatments they're told to do or risk loosing their healthcare. The UK is finally having to do this to cut down on the skyrocketing costs of their own UHC. They're also having to dip into other tax revenues since their "smoking tax" ploy is bottoming out.
    Freedom is... never more than one generation away from extinction. Every generation has to learn how to protect and defend it, or it’s gone and gone for a long, long time- Ronald Reagan

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Lets be realistic shall we? Your extremes do not prove a point, they only prove you extreme. The product, a motorcylce, in your example does not kill the person in question directly. Dumping waste into drinking water, or denying healthcare directly kills people.
    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02
    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ
    Really? So you are saying that anything that someone makes a profit from should not be allowed if someone might die as a result?
    If in doing so lives are at a proven direct risk, then no. So, say a company makes higher profits by dumping toxic waste into a local water source and people will die from drinking the water, then the company has no right to pursue that avenue for profit.
    I think you are the one being unrealistic.

    A doctor refusing to treat a person for whatever reason does not directly kill the person. The underlying disease or the trauma from the accident is what kills the person.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    I think you are the one being unrealistic.

    A doctor refusing to treat a person for whatever reason does not directly kill the person. The underlying disease or the trauma from the accident is what kills the person.

    It wasn't me, your Honor, that killed my baby... it was the lack of food that did it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
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    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    And you have to wait and wait.

    How is that any different from not being insured?

    Would you buy car insurance if you couldn't file your claim and be settled in the same month?
    But those with need get in. A guy needing an immediate operation is not told to wait so that a kid can get a band aid put on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldFatGuy View Post
    Usually a gag for wise mouthed insulting little girls. Then some good nylon rope so I can tie them up, toss them in the trunk of my car and forget about them.

  7. #107
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    But those with need get in. A guy needing an immediate operation is not told to wait so that a kid can get a band aid put on.
    You are right but what about those that they don't know that need to get in just as much.

    In the U.S. they get served rather quickly and the doctors realize after the fact how necessary it was for them to be treated.

    In countries with UHC they don't and it could make them worse waiting. It also keeps people with say knee surgeries from getting treatment and getting back to work quickly causing the economy to suffer for lack of productivity.

    The flaws with UHC or NHC or whatever anyone wants to call it are numerous and worse to the economy than our current system.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    I agree with CC in the sense that better reform of the insurance companies could relieve a lot of tension for millions of people, but with the level of corporate socialism that exists in the U.S. today, that is highly unlikely. It's because of the corrupt corporations that UHC is on the table in the first place, since the insurance companies make it so complicated and unaffordable to use their services.

    I disagree with what has been said about health care not being a right but a privilege. Maybe in the U.S. this is the case, but in all the other developed nations that provide UHC, it is legislated. I know in Canada it is.

    The only problem with regulating the insurance companies is that it still doesn't address the fact that millions of people cannot afford the monthly premiums anyway, and thus are left blowing in the wind; but because the U.S. is so anti-socialist when it comes to helping the poor, the typical response has always been: the lower class isn't important so if they can't afford it, who cares. Maybe if the lower class had affordable health care, they would be able to rise above their circumstances and move into another class? But oh... we don't want social mobility, oh no!

    I think introducing UHC to the U.S., while noble, will fall on deaf ears. Too many people are resistant to it because the idea of distributing the health burden among everyone is too foreign a concept, and the Cold War days have instilled a fear of anything socialist (despite the fact that there are already socialist systems in the U.S.).

    I had a friend in Canada who was anti-UHC and he got into a horrible car accident that required several surgeries on his back, physiotherapy, and a wheelchair for several years. He changed his tune quickly when he realized that without UHC he'd have to sell everything he owned to afford that treatment.

  9. #109
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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    It wasn't me, your Honor, that killed my baby... it was the lack of food that did it.
    Sad. Really sad.

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    Re: Obama calls for overhaul of U.S. health care system

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I agree with CC in the sense that better reform of the insurance companies could relieve a lot of tension for millions of people, but with the level of corporate socialism that exists in the U.S. today, that is highly unlikely. It's because of the corrupt corporations that UHC is on the table in the first place, since the insurance companies make it so complicated and unaffordable to use their services.

    I disagree with what has been said about health care not being a right but a privilege. Maybe in the U.S. this is the case, but in all the other developed nations that provide UHC, it is legislated. I know in Canada it is.

    The only problem with regulating the insurance companies is that it still doesn't address the fact that millions of people cannot afford the monthly premiums anyway, and thus are left blowing in the wind; but because the U.S. is so anti-socialist when it comes to helping the poor, the typical response has always been: the lower class isn't important so if they can't afford it, who cares. Maybe if the lower class had affordable health care, they would be able to rise above their circumstances and move into another class? But oh... we don't want social mobility, oh no!

    I think introducing UHC to the U.S., while noble, will fall on deaf ears. Too many people are resistant to it because the idea of distributing the health burden among everyone is too foreign a concept, and the Cold War days have instilled a fear of anything socialist (despite the fact that there are already socialist systems in the U.S.).

    I had a friend in Canada who was anti-UHC and he got into a horrible car accident that required several surgeries on his back, physiotherapy, and a wheelchair for several years. He changed his tune quickly when he realized that without UHC he'd have to sell everything he owned to afford that treatment.
    The poor can rise to another class if they put the effort in to it.
    It is not in the realm of fantasy.

    Health insurance is affordable if most people buy it. They just choose not to buy it. People do not have their priorities straight that is why we should not support UHC.

    If you can afford cable or satellite television but you won't get rid of it to get your health insurance then that is your problem and not anyone elses.

    Lastly what is more important your stuff or your life? It seems your friend values material things more than his life.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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