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Thread: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    So do you deny someone health care until they can be proven to be a citizen of the United States and/or have health care coverage? What about in an emergency life/death situation (ex: person brought in from an accident)?
    Had you read and comprehended my post, you would have understood the following points I made:

    We could easily bring healthcare costs under control, if hospitals were allowed to refer non emergency situations to county health departments.

    Emergency treatments could be billed to the county.
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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    We shouldn't have to pay any taxes on healthcare period.
    This I agree with. All out-of-pocket health care expenditures should be tax deductible. However, that's a completely different subject than whether or not health benefits should be treated as regular income.

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt
    We have an outstanding healthcare system, the best in the world, and it works perfectly fine for those of us who are responsible enough to purchase it.
    Not everyone has a job that provides health benefits. But again, that's a different subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt
    The increasing healthcare costs that we, the responsible people are being burdened with, is from the irresponsible who sponge off the system, and are coddled by the liberals who dupe them in believing they are entitled to free healthcare, in exchange for their vote.
    People wouldn't need to "sponge off the system" as much if they had access to preventative care instead of emergency care only. The overall share of the GDP spent on health care would almost certainly decline if we had universal health care.

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt
    We already have free healthcare in this country, it's called the County Health Department.

    Here's the Dade-Miami County Health Department.

    Take a second to look at all the services they offer.

    We could easily bring healthcare costs under control, if hospitals were allowed to refer non emergency situations to county health departments.
    If these things are county-run, that's great and I'm all for them. But obviously there are going to be huge differences in quality, as not every county has the money to offer quality health services to its residents.

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt
    Emergency treatments could be billed to the county.
    Meh, I'm hesitant to trust that to the counties. At the very least, it should be the state's responsibility. Otherwise we'd have an enormous system of patchwork laws and no coordination between locales (which, actually, is what we have now).

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt
    Furthermore, the treatment of illegal aliens should be on a cash and carry basis.

    We cannot continue to give free healthcare to people who are here illegally.
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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I am reluctant to accept any plan that will have me paying for the health benefits of someone who chooses not work and earn their own way (welfare).
    Yes, some people choose not to work and earn their own way. What about the other 90% of people without health insurance or with crappy health insurance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish
    At the same time I am very much open to anything that can remove the health industry from being dominated by high paying insurance companies focused on keeping health care at a price so outrageous that the average American has no possible chances to have health care without paying an insurance company.
    This would definitely be a step in the right direction. It obviously wouldn't get rid of the insurance companies, but it would at least take employers out of the equation. Most employers would stop offering health insurance benefits entirely if the government didn't distort the market in this way. This would mean that there would suddenly be a big market for individual insurance rather than group plans, which would drive the cost down.
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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    Had you read and comprehended my post, you would have understood the following points I made:
    I fully comprehended your post.

    How does billing the county affect your statement of "We cannot continue to give free health care to people who are here illegally."? Which was what my post was obviously addressed towards.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 03-04-09 at 07:17 PM.
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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy View Post
    I disagree.
    The it is a minor problem that could have been solved with a totally free market system.
    This is a step TOWARD a free market system, as it is eliminating a government-created market distortion. Both employers and employees have an artificial incentive for the employer to provide health insurance rather than the employee buying individual coverage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy
    Yeah ok.
    Just as economists of nearly every political stripe will tell you otherwise.
    No they won't. Please name one serious economist who opposes this. Actually, I'll give you an easier question: Please name one serious economist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy
    Resposibility?
    Not a responsibility but what the tax code allowed and therefore implemented by employers to make a business more competitive.
    Employers would have no incentive to provide health care in the first place if not for the tax code. That is NOT a free market, and the fact that you support this (most likely without understanding what you're supporting) undercuts your claim to favor a free market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolguy
    No it isn't, and hasn't, been.
    The essence of Government is to 'govern', not 'take care of', or provide 'support' to it's citizens.
    Militaries and police have existed for millennia. The idea of what "taking care of the people" entails has simply evolved.
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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yes, some people choose not to work and earn their own way. What about the other 90% of people without health insurance or with crappy health insurance?

    This would definitely be a step in the right direction. It obviously wouldn't get rid of the insurance companies, but it would at least take employers out of the equation. Most employers would stop offering health insurance benefits entirely if the government didn't distort the market in this way. This would mean that there would suddenly be a big market for individual insurance rather than group plans, which would drive the cost down.
    I agree they need to be helped. I do not agree with taxing me to do it. The price of insurance and/or health care directly needs to be lowered to manageable levels so that an employer isn't required for someone to have health care.

    When I worked for a large company I paid roughly $500 a year for my entire family to have great PPO insurance. I know pay more then that a month to have the same level of insurance working for myself.
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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    People without health insurance pay nothing every month for health care even though they could afford to pay some amount of money. It seems the government would rather have no money from them than some money.

    Hospitals and clinics should either be completely private or they should be completely public. They shouldn't be both.

    People with insurance would see their premiums reduced and the government would be out of the private health care business.

    Same with colleges. Either they are private and accept no government money or federal student loans or they are public. We'd see the cost of university go down too.

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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Hospitals and clinics should either be completely private or they should be completely public. They shouldn't be both.
    What about private practices that use public facilities? I have a doctor who has a private practice but uses the public hospital if she needs to do an MRI or some other procedure she doesn't have the resources to do at her small office.
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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    I agree they need to be helped. I do not agree with taxing me to do it. The price of insurance and/or health care directly needs to be lowered to manageable levels so that an employer isn't required for someone to have health care.

    When I worked for a large company I paid roughly $500 a year for my entire family to have great PPO insurance. I know pay more then that a month to have the same level of insurance working for myself.
    You actually paid much more than $500 / year, it was just hidden. Employer paid healthcare is part of the cost of employement so you are being paid less to cover it. The only real advantage is group rates.

    If it were not employer based, there would be many buying groups like AARP or Farm Bureau. Private insurance does not have all the mandates so people could shop for the health insurance tailored to what they wanted and not have to pay for the coverage they did not want.

    This is all a moot point though, since when the US government takes over the healthcare system, the real cost to you will be hidden again and you will get a one-size-fits-all where the coverage will have to be continually scaled back to contain costs.

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    Re: Democrat looking at taxing health benefit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    What about private practices that use public facilities? I have a doctor who has a private practice but uses the public hospital if she needs to do an MRI or some other procedure she doesn't have the resources to do at her small office.
    Send the patient to a private MRI because it's an open MRI and better than the public MRI. The patient's insurance will pay for it. There are all sorts of private diagnostic labs nowadays.

    If the patient does go to the public hospital are they billed? I guess it would all be no different than pounds pence or shillings to use the public facility if they did pay for services.

    I think the biggest problem is when the government pays for private facilities and the prices start going all crazy because there is more money running around available to charge. If the money isn't there from the government the hospitals have to keep fees lower.

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