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Thread: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

  1. #41
    Banned Goobieman's Avatar
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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Yawn, that can not be determined as of yet.
    Yes it can -- and it has, in arguments that you have not bothered to even try to address.

  2. #42
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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So you want nationalized health care, government control of industry, an AWB, and other statist invasions of privacy to be succsessful?


    I ask in an effort for you to see my point.
    I want legislation for these things to fail to pass into law, yes. I truly hope they fail in that sense. But if they do pass into law, then I hope that they at least succeed in their desired goals, and not according to how I predict that they will.

    Let me look at each point you've made individually to illustrate what I mean by hoping they don't fail.

    Nationalized Healthcare: Let's say this passes through legislation. I then hope that it actually works. Every person gets high-quality health-care and we as a nation become the healthiest, happiest bunch of assholes in the world.

    I hope that my predictions about this plan: that it will be an abysmal failure, that it will make health-care generally lower quality (long waiting lists for surgeries, etc), that it will cause a bigger nanny-state than we already have, etc are all wrong.


    Government control of Industry: If such legislation passes, again I hope I'm wrong and that it works in the sense that it makes the country better and stronger. I can't see myself how this could happen, but I'd hope that I'm wrong about that.

    Assault Weapons Ban: I would hope that if such legislation passes, it drastically reduces crime. I don't think it has any hope of succeeding, but I'd hope that since it is already passed that it would have such an effect.



    In other words, I am not saying we should support the plans as they are in legislation. We should definitely oppose them at that time while they are simply being proposed. It would be insanity to support stuff that you adamantly feel is destined for failure.

    But once these things are no longer just a possibility, but they indeed are the reality, we should hope that we are wrong about them. Personally, I'd much rather be wrong about their destructive nature than be proven right about my predictions.

    To give an example, I don't support the Patriot act, but I sure hope that since it exists, it works as planned and doesn't fail to work as planned. I just don't think it will do that in the long run. But my fear that in the long run it will be a failure doesn't change the fact that I don't want it to fail.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  3. #43
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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Now, now, Rev. I think you and I have already had this conversation in another thread, and you still have yet to show conclusively that this country is on a path to statism. We'll NEVER get there because there are just too many checks and balances in our three branches of government, specifically the judicial branch. But I digress...

    Control over which gun you can own, what schools your child must go to, making doctors perform operations, what healthcare you have, owning stakes in banks, auto, and other industry......

    We are absolutley on that path...


    EVERY solution Obama proposes is government as the answer. Statism.

    (take this as my response to that other thread as well. "tried again" and I do say "succsess" myself)




    From Exceptionalism to Statism - Michael G. Franc - The Corner on National Review Online



    Initially, I did even when I felt he was the wrong candidate to lead this country (not to mention I still believe the Republican party stole the election both times "W" ran. But that's in the past...). It wasn't until he began to lie to the American people about Iraq (i.e., WMDs and their involvement with terrism against the U.S.) did I want him to fail. And fail he did! He took his eye off the prize and many Americans paid a heavy price for it.
    This sort of close minded liberal talking points I can do with out.


    But no. At first I wanted him to do well. It wasn't until much later did I want him out of office! In the case of Pres. Obama, the Republican/Conservatives wanted him to fail well before he ever had a chance to succeed. To me, that's just not fair. But we are talking politics where fairness has no meaning nor relevance.

    We want him to fail in nationalizing our economy, yes.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  4. #44
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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I want legislation for these things to fail to pass into law, yes. I truly hope they fail in that sense. But if they do pass into law, then I hope that they at least succeed in their desired goals, and not according to how I predict that they will.

    Let me look at each point you've made individually to illustrate what I mean by hoping they don't fail.

    Thier desired controls in many instances are "control" as a libertarian, I can't stomache this.

    Nationalized Healthcare: Let's say this passes through legislation. I then hope that it actually works. Every person gets high-quality health-care and we as a nation become the healthiest, happiest bunch of assholes in the world.

    I hope that my predictions about this plan: that it will be an abysmal failure, that it will make health-care generally lower quality (long waiting lists for surgeries, etc), that it will cause a bigger nanny-state than we already have, etc are all wrong.
    We just have to look at the DMV.... I hope it fails before it is implemented and a real market solution can be found.


    Government control of Industry: If such legislation passes, again I hope I'm wrong and that it works in the sense that it makes the country better and stronger. I can't see myself how this could happen, but I'd hope that I'm wrong about that.
    Again, I am a free man, I do not want governments controlling whether or not I get a loan for my business. I am not black or female enough for them.

    Assault Weapons Ban: I would hope that if such legislation passes, it drastically reduces crime. I don't think it has any hope of succeeding, but I'd hope that since it is already passed that it would have such an effect.
    94 AWB had 0 effect on crime, this statist goal is simply about control.

    I hope he fails miserably here.



    In other words, I am not saying we should support the plans as they are in legislation. We should definitely oppose them at that time while they are simply being proposed. It would be insanity to support stuff that you adamantly feel is destined for failure.

    But once these things are no longer just a possibility, but they indeed are the reality, we should hope that we are wrong about them. Personally, I'd much rather be wrong about their destructive nature than be proven right about my predictions.

    To give an example, I don't support the Patriot act, but I sure hope that since it exists, it works as planned and doesn't fail to work as planned. I just don't think it will do that in the long run. But my fear that in the long run it will be a failure doesn't change the fact that I don't want it to fail.


    I see your point and have no problem with it in certain aspects. Though if it grows the government's reach, I hope it fails.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  5. #45
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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I see your point and have no problem with it in certain aspects. Though if it grows the government's reach, I hope it fails.
    As do I. I fervently hope these things do not pass. Like I said, in that sense I hope they fail. I hope most of these plans never see the light of day.

    But if they do, I hope the hell I'm wrong about them, because if I'm right, everything will be in the ****ter.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    As do I. I fervently hope these things do not pass. Like I said, in that sense I hope they fail. I hope most of these plans never see the light of day.

    But if they do, I hope the hell I'm wrong about them, because if I'm right, everything will be in the ****ter.




    As we swirl around here, where did you think we were? In a lazy river in at the "Atlantis" hotel?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #47
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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    94 AWB had 0 effect on crime, this statist goal is simply about control.
    Indeed -- and if the 1994 AWB had no efect, what argument IS there for another ban?

    Supportable argument, I mean.

  8. #48
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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    As we swirl around here, where did you think we were? In a lazy river in at the "Atlantis" hotel?
    Pass me a beer would ya

  9. #49
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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Indeed -- and if the 1994 AWB had no efect, what argument IS there for another ban?

    Supportable argument, I mean.



    This is a "public poll" worthy thread my friend.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  10. #50
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    Re: White House fires back at Rush Limbaugh

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    As we swirl around here, where did you think we were? In a lazy river in at the "Atlantis" hotel?
    Touche.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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