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Thread: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

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    Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'


    MOSCOW, March 2 (RIA Novosti) - Washington has told Moscow that Russian help in resolving Iran's nuclear program would make its missile shield plans for Europe unnecessary, a Russian daily said on Monday, citing White House sources

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    Re: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

    I don't like the idea of empowering the Russians to mitigate the Iran problem at the expense of a potentially power defensive advantage for the U.S. and our allies.

    I don't like this at all. It's eerily reminiscent of the bargaining that took place during the Cuban missile crisis only we don't have the incredible sense of urgency that we had then. Giving up obsolete missiles in Turkey is one thing, abandoning a counter to nuclear blackmail is something else.

    Unless someone has a more compelling argument.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I don't like the idea of empowering the Russians to mitigate the Iran problem at the expense of a potentially power defensive advantage for the U.S. and our allies.

    I don't like this at all. It's eerily reminiscent of the bargaining that took place during the Cuban missile crisis only we don't have the incredible sense of urgency that we had then. Giving up obsolete missiles in Turkey is one thing, abandoning a counter to nuclear blackmail is something else.

    Unless someone has a more compelling argument.
    It is an extremely good idea. Russia is still a great power and the attempts to muscle in on its backyard by Bush and co were idiotic. If you don't respect other great powers and their respective spheres of influence then you will quickly destablise the world, ideological rhetoric not withstanding.

    The American gov't would not be too happy if Russia or China started messing around in Central America(again).
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    It is an extremely good idea. Russia is still a great power and the attempts to muscle in on its backyard by Bush and co were idiotic. If you don't respect other great powers and their respective spheres of influence then you will quickly destablise the world, ideological rhetoric not withstanding.

    The American gov't would not be too happy if Russia or China started messing around in Central America(again).
    I will agree that it's risky in that it tips the balance of power in our favor, but I'll disagree that it's in Russia's sphere of influence. It's in the west's sphere of influence now. Is it destabilizing? Yes, but only in that it makes it more difficult for Russia to reassert it's former threat of nuclear annihilation as a bargaining chip.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

    Wessexman posted.
    Quote (
    The American gov't would not be too happy if Russia or China started messing around in Central America(again).)

    You forget Russian armament sales to Cuba, Venezuela.
    China buying up essential base commodities throughout South America.

    However I also think that this is for the best.
    At some time sooner or later, the US is going to have to do deals with Russia to reduce nuclear stocks.
    Russia has a great influence with Iran, although I doubt they will ever be able to deter the Iranians from producing nuclear weapons if indeed that is what Iran is doing or intent on doing.
    Bush's rhetoric was just so much hot air sabre rattling.
    We have to engage Iran and indeed all other Terrorist nations in dialogue to solve problems.
    The alternative is MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).

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    Re: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

    The reason given for the nuclear missile shield was the threat of Iran nuking Europe. So if Russia helps us stop Iran from getting a bomb (something that may be necessary if we don't want to go to war) then the nuclear missile shield will no longer be necessary, at least concerning the reason we gave.

    The shield wouldn't have a chance in hell of stopping Russia from nuking Europe if they wanted to, and pretending it could, and basing policy around that, is potentially dangerous.

    The OP needs a link by the way.
    down for you is up

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    Re: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    I don't like the idea of empowering the Russians to mitigate the Iran problem at the expense of a potentially power defensive advantage for the U.S. and our allies.

    I don't like this at all. It's eerily reminiscent of the bargaining that took place during the Cuban missile crisis only we don't have the incredible sense of urgency that we had then. Giving up obsolete missiles in Turkey is one thing, abandoning a counter to nuclear blackmail is something else.

    Unless someone has a more compelling argument.
    I completely agree. I was thinking the exact same thing.

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    Re: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Wessexman posted.
    Quote (
    The American gov't would not be too happy if Russia or China started messing around in Central America(again).)

    You forget Russian armament sales to Cuba, Venezuela.
    China buying up essential base commodities throughout South America.

    However I also think that this is for the best.
    At some time sooner or later, the US is going to have to do deals with Russia to reduce nuclear stocks.
    Russia has a great influence with Iran, although I doubt they will ever be able to deter the Iranians from producing nuclear weapons if indeed that is what Iran is doing or intent on doing.
    Bush's rhetoric was just so much hot air sabre rattling.
    We have to engage Iran and indeed all other Terrorist nations in dialogue to solve problems.
    The alternative is MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction).
    Indeed. And we can all thank Russia for providing a nuclear delivery system to a country run by a terrorist theocracy.

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    Re: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by Joby View Post
    The reason given for the nuclear missile shield was the threat of Iran nuking Europe. So if Russia helps us stop Iran from getting a bomb (something that may be necessary if we don't want to go to war) then the nuclear missile shield will no longer be necessary, at least concerning the reason we gave.

    The shield wouldn't have a chance in hell of stopping Russia from nuking Europe if they wanted to, and pretending it could, and basing policy around that, is potentially dangerous.

    The OP needs a link by the way.
    Joby, I believe the real threat from Iran is going to be a suitcase type bomb delivered by a covert operative...not a nuclear tipped missile. That has been a very real concern for some time among defense and intelligence experts. I don't believe for a second that the European missile shield was intended to protect Europe from just Iran. The reemergence of Russia as a strategic military power broker was an influencing factor.

    If Obama trades this away I'll have no choice but to question his judgment. Negotiating with Russia and co-existing with them peacefully is a great goal, but giving them our back on this is simply not good juju.
    *insert profound statement here*

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    Re: Obama 'ready to drop shield plans for Russian help on Iran'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    Joby, I believe the real threat from Iran is going to be a suitcase type bomb delivered by a covert operative...not a nuclear tipped missile. That has been a very real concern for some time among defense and intelligence experts. I don't believe for a second that the European missile shield was intended to protect Europe from just Iran. The reemergence of Russia as a strategic military power broker was an influencing factor.

    If Obama trades this away I'll have no choice but to question his judgment. Negotiating with Russia and co-existing with them peacefully is a great goal, but giving them our back on this is simply not good juju.
    If Russia decides to nuke us (or someone else), which do you think is more likely: They'll fire one nuclear weapon, or they'll fire 400 nuclear weapons?

    Unless the shield can stop a barrage of nukes (and some decoys too), what's the purpose of it?
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