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Thread: China relics buyer refuses to pay

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    China relics buyer refuses to pay

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    BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China relics buyer refuses to pay

    As the two statues in question were looted from Bejing in 1860 why would the French courts not consider them to be the property of the Chinese State?
    Objects that were looted from many EU Nations by the Germans were sent back to their legal owners.
    I would have thought that the same would apply to these objects.
    Comments?

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    Re: China relics buyer refuses to pay

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
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    BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China relics buyer refuses to pay

    As the two statues in question were looted from Bejing in 1860 why would the French courts not consider them to be the property of the Chinese State?
    Objects that were looted from many EU Nations by the Germans were sent back to their legal owners.
    I would have thought that the same would apply to these objects.
    Comments?
    I am not surprised at all, given France's history in this department. It has also retained precious Egyptian artifacts that made their way into its borders during colonialism, ones that the Egyptian cultural authority has been constantly asking for. Unlike Britain, France has few qualms about its imperial past. It has done some reparations in the form of money, but I doubt it will ever acknowledge claims to stolen cultural relics.

    Considering that these two relics were looted during the attack on and destruction of the Summer Palace, one of imperial China's most loved and celebrated sites, it is a double slap indeed.
    Last edited by Orion; 03-02-09 at 05:50 AM.

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    Re: China relics buyer refuses to pay

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Link
    BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China relics buyer refuses to pay

    As the two statues in question were looted from Bejing in 1860 why would the French courts not consider them to be the property of the Chinese State?
    Objects that were looted from many EU Nations by the Germans were sent back to their legal owners.
    I would have thought that the same would apply to these objects.
    Comments?
    Note: Germany LOSt that war, which is why it was forced to return the property.

    The fact that China is ticked off about this and is threatening Christies operations in China delights me to no end. Funny thing is, if those treasures weren't "looted" in the first place, there is a good chance they would not exist in as good a condition as they are right now.
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    Re: China relics buyer refuses to pay

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Note: Germany LOSt that war, which is why it was forced to return the property.

    The fact that China is ticked off about this and is threatening Christies operations in China delights me to no end. Funny thing is, if those treasures weren't "looted" in the first place, there is a good chance they would not exist in as good a condition as they are right now.
    No one can deny history, but that was the Cultural Revolution era, and this is now. China has a newfound appreciation for the past, and I think their claim to it is fair. You can't use China's past domestic conflicts to deny its right to its own relics.

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    Re: China relics buyer refuses to pay

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I am not surprised at all, given France's history in this department. It has also retained precious Egyptian artifacts that made their way into its borders during colonialism, ones that the Egyptian cultural authority has been constantly asking for. Unlike Britain, France has few qualms about its imperial past. It has done some reparations in the form of money, but I doubt it will ever acknowledge claims to stolen cultural relics.
    I am pretty sure that the British are still holding most of the Parthenon's sculpture. Don't know if that was resolved, but I don't believe it has.

    I remember reading the explanation a few years ago. It was like: "Those sculptures belong to humanity. Since more people can view them in Britain, we're keeping them."

    I agree with you concerning the imperial history though. The British get an unfair share of crap compared to the French (not to mention that Belge Leopold II)....I guess that's what they get for gloating about how the sun never sets for all those years

    The fact that China is ticked off about this and is threatening Christies operations in China delights me to no end. Funny thing is, if those treasures weren't "looted" in the first place, there is a good chance they would not exist in as good a condition as they are right now.
    That's a great point, I didn't think of that beforehand.
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    Re: China relics buyer refuses to pay


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    Re: China relics buyer refuses to pay

    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: China relics buyer refuses to pay

    Quote Originally Posted by jujuman13 View Post
    Link
    BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China relics buyer refuses to pay

    As the two statues in question were looted from Bejing in 1860 why would the French courts not consider them to be the property of the Chinese State?
    Objects that were looted from many EU Nations by the Germans were sent back to their legal owners.
    I would have thought that the same would apply to these objects.
    Comments?
    I dislike stolen artwork from being sold; however, what China is doing is illegal.

    Two wrongs don't make a right (three lefts do... but that is a different story entirely) ... as such ... those responsible need to be banned from further bidding and China needs to be officialy sanctioned for allowing this action.

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    Re: China relics buyer refuses to pay

    Quote Originally Posted by HannaForman View Post
    Great. We have another one.

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    Re: China relics buyer refuses to pay

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    No one can deny history, but that was the Cultural Revolution era, and this is now. China has a newfound appreciation for the past, and I think their claim to it is fair. You can't use China's past domestic conflicts to deny its right to its own relics.
    While it may have a "moral" claim to the relics, there is no legal claim to them.
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