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U.S. gun dealers arming Mexican drug cartels

OutoftheBox

OutoftheBox

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Why isn't the US government getting at the source of 'this' gun problem on the US Mexico border?

People have asked what should we do about the Mexican drug lords who cross over into the states and promote violence. Shouldn't we also ask why is it that US gun dealers sells weapons to Mexicans during times that Mexico has become a dangerous problem for the US?



U.S. gun dealers arming Mexican drug cartels - International Herald Tribune

U.S. gun dealers arming Mexican drug cartels
By James C. McKinley Jr.
Published: February 26, 2009

PHOENIX, Arizona: The Mexican agents who moved in on a safe house full of drug dealers last May were not prepared for the firepower that greeted them.

When the shooting was over, eight agents were dead. Among the guns the police recovered was an assault rifle traced back across the border to a dingy store here called X-Caliber Guns.

Now, the owner, George Iknadosian, will go on trial on charges that he sold scores of weapons, mostly AK-47 rifles, to smugglers who supplied a drug cartel in the western state of Sinaloa, fueling the gang warfare in which more than 6,000 Mexicans died last year.

The Mexican authorities have long complained that American gun dealers were arming the cartels. This case is the most prominent prosecution of an American gun dealer since the United States promised Mexico two years ago that it would clamp down on the smuggling of weapons across the border.

It also offers a glimpse of how weapons delivered to American gun dealers are being moved into Mexico and used in horrific crimes.
 
We can not ban the 2nd amendment to Mexicans and Mexican looking people just because some scumbags are coming over the border to purchase fire arms. The solution is to secure the border. A secured border means no one will be able sneak back and forth across the border. The fact scum in Mexico are using firearms from our gun dealers is irrelevant. Because most likely since these people are foreign nationals who are buying these firearms a back ground check is going to be useless,since most people are not criminal scum they should not be basically forced to ask the government to exercise something they have a right to.


As for the government not addressing the border problem it is because addressing the border problem would mean they would have to actually do their damn job to secure the border. Those in office want illegals to exploit for dirt cheap labor or they hope they can give these people amnesty for cheap votes or they hope for cheap votes from those that harbor illegals here in the US.
 
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Yes, it must be stopped, but perhaps the Mexican govt can stop the drug trade on their side of the border thus reducing the need for those guns? If it wasn't for corrupt law enforcement in Mexico. a lot less drugs would be smuggled in to the USA.
 
OutoftheBox said:
Why isn't the US government getting at the source of 'this' gun problem on the US Mexico border?

People have asked what should we do about the Mexican drug lords who cross over into the states and promote violence. Shouldn't we also ask why is it that US gun dealers sells weapons to Mexicans during times that Mexico has become a dangerous problem for the US?



U.S. gun dealers arming Mexican drug cartels - International Herald Tribune

U.S. gun dealers arming Mexican drug cartels
By James C. McKinley Jr.
Published: February 26, 2009

PHOENIX, Arizona: The Mexican agents who moved in on a safe house full of drug dealers last May were not prepared for the firepower that greeted them.

When the shooting was over, eight agents were dead. Among the guns the police recovered was an assault rifle traced back across the border to a dingy store here called X-Caliber Guns.

Now, the owner, George Iknadosian, will go on trial on charges that he sold scores of weapons, mostly AK-47 rifles, to smugglers who supplied a drug cartel in the western state of Sinaloa, fueling the gang warfare in which more than 6,000 Mexicans died last year.

The Mexican authorities have long complained that American gun dealers were arming the cartels. This case is the most prominent prosecution of an American gun dealer since the United States promised Mexico two years ago that it would clamp down on the smuggling of weapons across the border.

It also offers a glimpse of how weapons delivered to American gun dealers are being moved into Mexico and used in horrific crimes.
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i think something IS being done.



Or are you suggesting we do something about my guns?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
i think something IS being done.

Or are you suggesting we do something about my guns?
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I'm pretty sure he suggested that there is something clearly wrong with the system when non-U.S. citizens[Hatuey's add on : who according to some of the same people who are most likely to oppose giving constitutional rights to people in Gbay] are buying guns[Hatuey's add on 2 : under a constitutional right that does not apply to them]. But this argument can go both ways.
 
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Hatuey said:
I'm pretty sure he suggested that there is something clearly wrong with the system when non-U.S. citizens[Hatuey's add on : who according to some of the same people who are most likely to oppose giving constitutional rights to people in Gbay] are buying guns[Hatuey's add on 2 : under a constitutional right that does not apply to them]. But this argument can go both ways.
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The left all gave them rights..... sucks.
 
Just out of interest how does the 2nd amendment apply to foreigners? What is the current jurisprudence in regards to the issue? Does the use of guns by foreigners differ from state to state?

I'm interested because my mate, visited the States last October and went to an indoor shooting range in Los Vagas. They took some photos of him firing the guns, and he brought home the tattered targets. But he was so wrapped at firing a gun that he didn't ask how what is the law in relation to foreigners actually owning guns.

Secondly if the the 2nd amendment is unclear on this issue, are there any contextual, or historical arguments; legal or non-legal that state whether or not the founding fathers wanted gun-rights to be granted to all U.S citizens or to any person living, traveling, residing, or working within a U.S state?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
The left all gave them rights..... sucks.
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What? You're saying the left gave illegal aliens the rights to buy guns in the U.S.? Okay, can you cite the legislation because I'm not familiar with that.
 
UtahBill said:
Yes, it must be stopped, but perhaps the Mexican govt can stop the drug trade on their side of the border thus reducing the need for those guns? If it wasn't for corrupt law enforcement in Mexico. a lot less drugs would be smuggled in to the USA.
Click to expand...

Actually Mexico tried to do exactly that a few years ago. They wanted to legalize ALL drugs for personal use, which would've crippled the cartels. But they suddenly had a change of heart as soon as the Bush Administration began pressuring them to reverse the policy.

Hopefully Obama will be more sensible about the war on drugs...but we'll see.
 
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Lerxst said:
What? You're saying the left gave illegal aliens the rights to buy guns in the U.S.? Okay, can you cite the legislation because I'm not familiar with that.
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supreme courts decision that terrorists be afforded constitutional rights..... cant give some and not the others the same rights no? :lol:
 
Let's assume the people actually buying these guns did not jump a fence, that they have visas or maybe are US citizens. So they go to a Texas gun show and load up on quality American firearms, maybe file off the automatic override to take full advantage of the weapons. What's the problem? The guns are inanimate objects, they don't kill anyone. And America has no obligation to trace these guns beyond the Mexican border or get picky about who winds up with them, right?
Gun owners, you spent decades creating the environment where America can be the arms merchant for the world. Don't get soft over a little spilt blood. After all, it's only Mexicans.
 
OutoftheBox said:
Why isn't the US government getting at the source of 'this' gun problem on the US Mexico border?
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Because, in order to do so, it will have to admit that the drug war is a failure and that the government has been wasting time energy and money on it.

Then, they have to end it.
 
WillRockwell said:
Let's assume the people actually buying these guns did not jump a fence, that they have visas or maybe are US citizens. So they go to a Texas gun show and load up on quality American firearms, maybe file off the automatic override to take full advantage of the weapons. What's the problem? The guns are inanimate objects, they don't kill anyone. And America has no obligation to trace these guns beyond the Mexican border or get picky about who winds up with them, right?
Gun owners, you spent decades creating the environment where America can be the arms merchant for the world. Don't get soft over a little spilt blood. After all, it's only Mexicans.
Click to expand...




This is not ignorance, this is a lie..... what the hell are you talking about..... :lol::roll:
 
Um...
If a licensed dealer is selling guns illegally, what new law will stop him?
Seems to me that better enforcement of current laws will be sufficient.

And the argument to unconstitutionally restrict the rights of law abiding Americans so as to reduce crime in Mexico?

I havent heard anything that asinine since... well... EVER.
 
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WillRockwell said:
So they go to a Texas gun show and load up on quality American firearms, maybe file off the automatic override to take full advantage of the weapons.
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You truely have -no- idea of what you are talking about.
None whatsoever.
 
You know, if there weren't such a demand for illegal Mexican drugs here in the United States, those cartels wouldn't be able to afford the weapons they use to attack American law enforcement officials.

Perhaps instead of trying to impose further restrictions against the rights of American citizens, we should abolish the asinine drug laws that make these organized criminal syndicates possible.
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
You know, if there weren't such a demand for illegal Mexican drugs here in the United States, those cartels wouldn't be able to afford the weapons they use to attack American law enforcement officials.

Perhaps instead of trying to impose further restrictions against the rights of American citizens, we should abolish the asinine drug laws that make these organized criminal syndicates possible.
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+1. That's the point I always talk about with the black market drug trade, there is a demand and supply, no law will invalidate that. The Mexican and Columbian drug cartels are deplorable, but they are not stupid as they make tons of money off of United States drug demand. I don't think we should turn a blind eye to drug usage and addiction in this country by any means, but I think a more out of the box type of thinking along with decriminalization to an extent would work wonders on many drug related fronts.
 
LaMidRighter said:
+1. That's the point I always talk about with the black market drug trade, there is a demand and supply, no law will invalidate that.
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Can't declare war on 8% of international commerce.

LaMidRighter said:
I don't think we should turn a blind eye to drug usage and addiction in this country by any means, but I think a more out of the box type of thinking along with decriminalization to an extent would work wonders on many drug related fronts.
Click to expand...

I don't think decriminalization will do enough to undercut the cartels. We would need full legalization, at least of certain drugs, coupled with purity and dosage standards and tax licensing. The cartels may be rich and organized, but I'd like to see them try to play their little games with the likes of RJ Reynolds or Philip Morris.

Between saving money on enforcement and the tax revenue, I think it would generate sufficient revenue to fund aggressive public awareness campaigns and rehab programs.
 
Goobieman said:
Um...
If a licensed dealer is selling guns illegally, what new law will stop him?
Seems to me that better enforcement of current laws will be sufficient.

And the argument to unconstitutionally restrict the rights of law abiding Americans so as to reduce crime in Mexico?

I havent heard anything that asinine since... well... EVER.
Click to expand...

The gun dealer can't stop himself from illegally selling guns if he's not able to actually check if that person is legally capable of buying a gun, since checking would be an infringement of a right to those that are legally capable of buying.
 
Gibberish said:
The gun dealer can't stop himself from illegally selling guns if he's not able to actually check if that person is legally capable of buying a gun, since checking would be an infringement of a right to those that are legally capable of buying.
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And now, for a dose of reality:

From the story:
Smugglers routinely enlist Americans with clean criminal records to buy two or three rifles at a time, often from different shops, then transport them across the border in cars and trucks, hiding them in door panels or under the hood, law enforcement officials here said
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These things are already illegal, and background checks will not stop them.

Never mind that THIS...
Iknadosian is accused of being one of those dealers. So brazen was his operation that the smugglers paid him in advance for the guns and the straw buyers merely filled out the required paperwork and carried the weapons off,
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... is something that NO amount of reatriction on the law abiding will EVER stop, as the dealer himself is willfully and knowingly breaking the law.

As I said: Never has there been a more asinine idea.
 
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Toss out our absurd drug laws and cut off the profit flowing into Mexican cartel's hands.
 
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