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Thread: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

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    McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    John McCain says that Obama's plan to allow polluters to purchase permits that allow them to continue polluting is dumb. Guess what? I agree.

    What happened to Obama's plan to lead us out of our economic crisis by "going green"? That plan seems to have a chink in it already.

    Discussion, anyone?

    Article is here.
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    Re: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    Emissions Trading is not dumb. Its how we and other nations have addressed other environmental issues like Acid Rain. In fact, McCain himself introduced Cap and Trade legislation in 2003.

    Wikipedia has a good explanation on how it works:

    "A central authority (usually a government or international body) sets a limit or cap on the amount of a pollutant that can be emitted. Companies or other groups are issued emission permits and are required to hold an equivalent number of allowances (or credits) which represent the right to emit a specific amount. The total amount of allowances and credits cannot exceed the cap, limiting total emissions to that level. Companies that need to increase their emission allowance must buy credits from those who pollute less. The transfer of allowances is referred to as a trade. In effect, the buyer is paying a charge for polluting, while the seller is being rewarded for having reduced emissions by more than was needed. Thus, in theory, those that can easily reduce emissions most cheaply will do so, achieving the pollution reduction at the lowest possible cost to society.[1]"

    Emissions trading - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    By adding a cost to emitting carbon or a pollutant, you incentivize the private sector to innovate and produce cleaner technologies. There is a true market failure when dealing with many environmental problems as there is simply never a market incentive to address them absent artificially introducing some kind of cost incentive or penalty.

    That all said, I think that controlling carbon emissions through emissions trading is inherently flawed because of the size and scope of what is involved. I just don't think any organization, including the government, could possible manage such a huge market and that it would be just rife with corruption.

    Instead, I think a carbon tax is a much better approach. By putting a tax on carbon, you don't create this huge market for emissions credits, yet you still create an incentive to reduce carbon emissions and innovate. Such a tax could be designed to be largely revenue neutral so that it provides an incentive to reduce emissions, yet its effect as an economic drag could be somewhat mitigated. Moreover, a carbon tax would require a much smaller government bureaucracy to administer than a carbon credits market.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 02-27-09 at 11:03 PM.
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    Re: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    Carbon credits/tax is nothing but bull****, it doesn't reduce the emissions, period. It provides no incentive, companies just pay the tax and/or buy up the credits and pass the cost onto the consumer

    If we'd start moving towards nuclear and solar (both of which we can break ground on tomorrow) we'd immediately create thousands of jobs and be one step closer to solving some of our energy and environmental concerns.

    My curiosity is how much acreage is needed for a windfarm versus a nuclear plant, in regard to energy production/output? Looking to the future, land will be in short supply, so is a windfarm a viable energy source in it's current configuration?
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    Re: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    Carbon credits/tax is nothing but bull****, it doesn't reduce the emissions, period. It provides no incentive, companies just pay the tax and/or buy up the credits and pass the cost onto the consumer

    If we'd start moving towards nuclear and solar (both of which we can break ground on tomorrow) we'd immediately create thousands of jobs and be one step closer to solving some of our energy and environmental concerns.

    My curiosity is how much acreage is needed for a windfarm versus a nuclear plant, in regard to energy production/output? Looking to the future, land will be in short supply, so is a windfarm a viable energy source in it's current configuration?
    I agree with you on nuclear, but the fact is emissions trading and taxes most certainly do work and have a long track record of working when implemented to handle other environmental problem. If emissions trading did not work in tackling acid rain then Adirondack lakes would be the PH of vinegar by now.
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    Re: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    Carbon credits/tax is nothing but bull****, it doesn't reduce the emissions, period. It provides no incentive, companies just pay the tax and/or buy up the credits and pass the cost onto the consumer

    If we'd start moving towards nuclear and solar (both of which we can break ground on tomorrow) we'd immediately create thousands of jobs and be one step closer to solving some of our energy and environmental concerns.

    My curiosity is how much acreage is needed for a windfarm versus a nuclear plant, in regard to energy production/output? Looking to the future, land will be in short supply, so is a windfarm a viable energy source in it's current configuration?
    Windfarms are very viable in certain areas, such as West Texas. Read about the Pickens Plan here. I think it's a good one.
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    Re: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    Is McCain even relevant anymore?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Is McCain even relevant anymore?
    Maybe not, but he is still right on this issue. What do you think about cap and trade?
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    Re: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Maybe not, but he is still right on this issue. What do you think about cap and trade?
    To be honest...I'm not familiar enough on the way the program works to comment. I know a little, but I can't say whether I support it or not.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Is McCain even relevant anymore?
    There's no Republican more popular in the media than a Republican certain to lose an election. Except perhaps one who has already lost miserably but seems determined to stick around much, much longer than he's welcome.

    McCain may be right on the issue. But having him as a spokesman for the GOP on ANY issue only helps Obama.


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    Re: McCain Says Obama’s Climate Plan Faces Tough Road in Congress

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    To be honest...I'm not familiar enough on the way the program works to comment. I know a little, but I can't say whether I support it or not.
    Cool. Let's debate the issue then.

    Seriously, though, it's a great issue to become familiar with.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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