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Thread: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    The intention of the treaty really doesn't matter a hoot. These kinds of laws and regulations should be done within the country's own laws itself. Not an outside entity such as the UN. What makes this even worse is that the provisions for enforcement are pretty damn weak as usual except for their ability to interfere in specific court cases. Its ripe for abuse. Just because nothing has happened yet doesn't make it ok.
    And where would the abuses come from? It's up to each nation to ratify and enforce the treaty. It's not as though the UN has its own police force to enforce specific values. Each country will have to interpret this treaty according to its cultural practices. The whole point is that children have an avenue of escape if they are in dire circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    The UN can't get their crap together on treaties and policies already on their books. Why would I want to trust them with another "foot in the door" policy that would give up rights to them?
    Too many people view the UN as a suprainternational enforcer. It's not a separate body from the rest of the world's nations. It's made up of nations. Every single committee has nations which are responsible for putting legislation into action. If the UN is a failure, it's because its constituent nations have also failed.

    Secondly, the amount of agreement and enforcement is placed squarely on the shoulders of the participant nations. The UN can't force anybody to act... it's just a forum for nations to come together and make agreements. No agreement in the UN is truly binding, it is also based on faith between the world of States.

    But if States want to save face with their allies and partners, then they need to stick to their agreements. The world is still an anarchy at heart (according to POLISCI 101) and so agreements are abandoned or adhered to as it suits the needs and agendas of individual nations. This is the central reason why the UN's policy implementation is usually chaotic. There is no super power to bring out a stick and hit those who disobey.

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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Do those countries have a disproportionate number of the world's trial lawyers?
    Not a lot of money in representing children against their parents as a rule. Doubt trial lawyers will be lining up for that.
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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Except that it will result in more frivolous lawsuits, intervention from liberal child protection agencies, undue publicity for radical anti-religious activities. That Newdow (sp?) character would LOVE it if this were ratified.
    Can you link me to the provision of the treaty that creates a private cause of action? Thanks.
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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Not a lot of money in representing children against their parents as a rule. Doubt trial lawyers will be lining up for that.
    ACLU? Ever heard of them?

    I live in a country that is not even a signatory to the treaty and I don't see noteworthy abuses against children here. Why is this needed in the US?
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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Can you link me to the provision of the treaty that creates a private cause of action? Thanks.
    It doesn't need to, and you know it. It depends on the enabling legislation in the US and the decisions of federal courts on how the treaty gets applied and interpreted - and given the bunch of bozos in charge in DC right now, do we really want to give them another tool to get intrusive in the lives of people?

    Again, I live in a country that is a non-signatory. I don't see why it is even needed.
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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    WORDING

    Is always more important then Intention in such things.


    Kyoto for example has "intentions" that doesn't seem so bad. Its the wording which makes it garbage treaty to sign.

    People say it will have no effect..it sets a precedent that the signatory has agreed to which can be used as a legal basis for an argument.
    IOW yes it does matter and have effect if you sign it.

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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    Why in the world would we need a treaty with the UN for this?
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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Shows just how far the government is willing to go sometimes to interfere. Including sending in the ATF to burn your building down.
    And you've got no proof of this. Thanks for proving you're one step bellow 9/11 truthers.
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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Democrat View Post
    Anytime we are along side Somalia as the only nation on earth that has not ratified a human rights treaty, then I think its safe to assume we are in the wrong.
    There must be more to this, much more...The world is not that stupid....is it ??
    But there must be a good reason why this has not been signed..
    Being lumped in with Somalia... the ultimate insult..

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    Re: Boxer Seeks to Ratify U.N. Treaty That May Erode U.S. Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    The purpose of the treaty is to prevent children from being co-opted into cults, military militias (think Taliban), and the sex trade, even if their parents want them to do it. They have the right to say no and go to the authorities for help. If a country has ratified this treaty, then they will be obligated to help those children. It's a good idea because in a lot of countries, children must serve their parents no matter what, and sometimes parents put their children in bad situations for their self-gain.

    The intention of this treaty is not to prevent people from parenting their children according to their values, but to protect the safety and well being of a child from obvious dangers.
    It helps to further the power of the state over the ever diminishing autonomy of groups like the family. It is a bad idea and no amount of talk about good intentions makes up for that.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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