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Thread: Man slays sister for honour

  1. #41
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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Could you perhaps provide numbers for the countries which are not predominantly Muslim, especially the countries in the Western hemisphere where this practice continues today? Any chance you might also have numbers comparing the number of honor killings perpetrated by Muslims versus those who are not?
    Even the UN admits that it is impossible to collate honor-killing numbers for many reasons:

    - sanctioned by the state
    - ignored by authorities
    - never reported
    - declared a suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Without that kind of data, words like "most" don't really have any meaning.
    Perhaps not to you. I do know this though. Honor-killings occur with great frequency from Pakistan to Egypt. You seem to have this notion that my intent here is to diminish Islam. It is not. Talking with you is much like walking in a minefield. Generally, folks living in the Middle East don't have to parse each word with such strict inflexibility.

    Have you ever seen an honor-killing? I have. Twice. Both were Muslim women. I will always speak out on this phenomena as it effects Muslim women because it is what I know firsthand. If you wish to speak out on behalf of other gender-violence victims across the globe, by all means do so. But don't criticize other voices simply because their primary focus offends your personal sense of political correctness.

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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Can you? And provide numbers which show westerners doing them.
    That's actually sort of my point -- you can't characterize or quantify the frequency of these acts of violence, not the way Tashah did.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Even the UN admits that it is impossible to collate honor-killing numbers for many reasons:

    - sanctioned by the state
    - ignored by authorities
    - never reported
    - declared a suicide


    Perhaps not to you. I do know this though. Honor-killings occur with great frequency from Pakistan to Egypt. You seem to have this notion that my intent here is to diminish Islam. It is not. Talking with you is much like walking in a minefield. Generally, folks living in the Middle East don't have to parse each word with such strict inflexibility.
    You said, and I quote, "Most female honor-killings occur in predominantly Muslim countries." I asked you to substantiate that claim, and you have just proven that it is impossible to do so. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    I will always speak out on this phenomena as it effects Muslim women because it is what I know firsthand. If you wish to speak out on behalf of other gender-violence victims across the globe, by all means do so. But don't criticize other voices simply because their primary focus offends your personal sense of political correctness.
    As I have said previously, and will continue to say, these killings are not about Islam. That is the point that I will continue to drive home, and which so many continue to ignore for reasons beyond my ability to comprehend.

    It is that characterization which offends me.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #44
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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    My point is that honor killings are not Islamic in nature, period. They are a function of a pre-existing culture which predates Islam, so threads like these do not, as you previously asserted they do, expose the "seamy underbelly" if Islam.

    And that is a good point. Another point we might want to consider is how some cultures are slower/quicker to adapt from our pre-existing cultural babarisms to evolve into a more civilized species.

    We certainly have enough problems of our own here in this country with men injuring and killing women. But it really has nothing to do with anything honorable in our cultural belief system here. But I have to confess, it's been a long time since I have read in the paper that some American beheaded their own sister for getting raped, or falling in love with the wrong person, or refusing to wear some kind of head dress, or not totally submitting to their male counterparts. I dunno. Call us crazy.

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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    And that is a good point. Another point we might want to consider is how some cultures are slower/quicker to adapt from our pre-existing cultural babarisms to evolve into a more civilized species.
    That, to me, is a far more interesting topic for discussion, since it doesn't begin by mischaracterizing the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    We certainly have enough problems of our own here in this country with men injuring and killing women. But it really has nothing to do with anything honorable in our cultural belief system here.
    A generation ago, some men beat their wives on the grounds that it was their perogative as head of the household to use violence to keep the family in line.

    A generation ago, black men were still being hung for the crime of being black -- sometimes because they refused to be cowed, sometimes because they supposedly got involved with white woman, but in all cases for being black without being sufficiently subservient.

    It hasn't been all that long since we last dragged a black man behind a pickup truck or killed a man for being gay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    But I have to confess, it's been a long time since I have read in the paper that some American beheaded their own sister for getting raped, or falling in love with the wrong person, or refusing to wear some kind of head dress, or not totally submitting to their male counterparts. I dunno. Call us crazy.
    We generally don't behead people. We prefer guns, nooses, and blunt force trauma.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  6. #46
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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    That, to me, is a far more interesting topic for discussion, since it doesn't begin by mischaracterizing the problem.


    A generation ago, some men beat their wives on the grounds that it was their perogative as head of the household to use violence to keep the family in line.
    As a society we do not condone acts of domestic violence today. Some men still beat there wives for the reason you suggest. That does not mean that we can not educate ourselfs about other human rights issues.

    A generation ago, black men were still being hung for the crime of being black -- sometimes because they refused to be cowed, sometimes because they supposedly got involved with white woman, but in all cases for being black without being sufficiently subservient.
    Racism and crimes against blacks and other ethnic minorities are an ugly part of our past. And we have dealt with these problems, peoples attitudes towards those who are different than them have changed for the most part. However things did not change because we refused to talk about them or because we denied they were taking place. TED, things changed because people became educated through discussion and debate such as what we do right here at DP.

    It hasn't been all that long since we last dragged a black man behind a pickup truck or killed a man for being gay.
    We did not drag a black man behind a pickup truck. Two ignorant cretins dragged James Byrd to death.


    We generally don't behead people. We prefer guns, nooses, and blunt force trauma.
    We also live in a society where people who commit crimes with guns, nooses, and bft are prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced. In some muslim countries they have not evolved or should I say advanced as we have. In many cases those that kill to protect family honour never face jail time or even prosecution. Many honour killings involve multiple family members and other members of the comunity conspiring to kill an innocent family member.

    We also do not kill to protect family honour. That is the subject of this thread. The only way this will ever stop is if people talk about it and become involved. Your attempt to divert the subject by pointing to America has been noted.
    Last edited by SgtRock; 02-25-09 at 11:37 PM.
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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Yes, he may focus on Muslims primarily but even then, I'm pretty sure he's pointing out its not just isolated to them
    Yeah, he mentioned Hindus to appear holistic, but he's still focusing on the Islamic world exclusively. What about East Asian honour killings? Look at how many threads against Islam he posts. All the pics of victims he has posted have come from Muslim honour killings.

    So don't blast me for pointing out the obvious.

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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    So don't blast me for pointing out the obvious.
    Yet you blast him for pointing out the obvious. Do a comprehensive search of all news articles that contain the word “honor-killing”. It doesn't take a genius to categorize the returned compendium vis-a-vis incident identifiers such as geographic location and event rationale.

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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And even then, comparing the United States to places like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and others that have attrocious women's rights (which is EXACTLY what he said by saying "one of those" being the U.S.) is absolutely positively laughable.

    Show me those countries where a woman is running legitimately the chance to be in one of the highest offices in the land (Hillary in the primaries, Palin in the general). That one of the most powerful legislators is a female (Pelosi). Where there are independent business owners, private bosses, all the way up to CEO's that are female? Hell, for some of them, show me where their female can dress in whatever they want and go wherever they want without a man? How about that epidemic amount of Honor Killings going through the U.S., its undoubtably equal proportionally to those countries.

    Give me a ****ing break. This is like saying the Los Angelos Clippers are the same as the Boston Celtics because they both play baseketball and have lost games.
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    Re: Man slays sister for honour

    Wonderful, they're making progress. They're still not on par with the freedoms and equality for women that is presented to them in the majority of the Western World and the United States.

    It is still absolutely laughable to say that the condition of Womens Rights in the United States is exactly the same as it in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, or other places in the world with a poor record of women's rights

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