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Thread: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Quote Originally Posted by Nep188 View Post
    Valid argument, but if the execution of a method is off, should we not alter the method to improve the execution? Or sit back and watch it continue to fail... miserably.

    And that's still not my point... How the hell does providing internet service stimulate the economy. Hell, let's broadcast QVC on every TV channel until people buy stuff. That would work better...
    I don't think the vast majority of what government could do would be helpful. And in practice, they rarely do anything which is helpful. All this spending is just so they can spend tons of money; probably funnel as much as possible to their buddies in the process. Untrustworthy pirates (and not the cool type of pirates either...like Johnny Depp) the whole lot of them. The internet service is probably so they can get their greedy little hands on the internet. That's been a goal of government for sometime, and if they can claim it as government utility, they can censor, police, and spy on it.
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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Economics 101:

    Increase spending in a recession and take on debt to stimulate the economy, then reduce spending during periods of economic growth, and reduce debt service as a percentage of Federal Outlays.
    Economics 101 Liberal style perhaps. Tell me something, what part of this plan "stimulates" anything? The argument that it is a "stimulus" is false.

    What is fascinating about the notion that spending trillions of dollars the Government doesn't have as being a good thing requires one to ignore the Liberal argument that tax cuts do not stimulate economic growth.

    The same morons (Democrats in Congress) that tell us that the Bush tax cuts COST the Government revenue and didn’t “stimulate” the economy are now arguing that spending money the Government doesn’t have for “pet” projects of their choosing is a better idea and somehow, this does not cost us revenue? Say what?

    Tell me something Mr. Econ 101. What has a greater multiplier effect on economic growth; private sector spending, or Government? When you are through explaining that, explain how printing money and borrowing another $2 trillion will make our nation stronger?

    Which brings up another of the false specious Democrat party arguments of the past; that Bush weakened the nation by making us more in debt to foreign entities; really? So this is different?

    The fascinating denial here is the notion that tax cuts to stimulate the economy = bad. But Government programs to spend the money in selected preferred industries = good.

    I am sorry; one has to be from planet denial to suggest that this is Econ 101; or sound economics by any desperate description.

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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Quote Originally Posted by Edify_Always_In_All_Ways View Post
    Actually, the money for internet access will probably bring higher future returns than just about anything else in the bailout bill. I'd say that being able to use the internet *is* a necessity if we're to keep up with places like Japan and Europe.
    Why do you think the Government needs to be involved in money for the internet? Do you think that innovation cannot occur without Government handouts and giveaways?

    I am curious, with all this defense of the trillions of dollars being offered up by Obama, who do you think will be getting the bill for this spending?

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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Quote Originally Posted by Edify_Always_In_All_Ways View Post
    Actually, the money for internet access will probably bring higher future returns than just about anything else in the bailout bill. I'd say that being able to use the internet *is* a necessity if we're to keep up with places like Japan and Europe.
    Really? You think so?

    In all honesty, the only places without IA are farmlands in Montana, and I really don't think giving farmers access to the internet will help them any... Well I take that back, they'll have weather.com. I suppose that could be useful.

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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    I will agree with that. However, you don't have to cut spending in times of economic growth. You just have to reduce it relative to population growth and inflation. Which we did do back in the 90s, as a result debt service as a percentage of federal outlays dropped considerably.

    Just the same, the worst time to cut spending would be right now.
    The debate is not about cutting spending; it is about spending for the sake of spending.

    In case you forgot, the issue is passing $2 trillion in new spending without the funds to pay for it on top of a $459 billion deficit we carried into 2009.

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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Economics 101 Liberal style perhaps. Tell me something, what part of this plan "stimulates" anything? The argument that it is a "stimulus" is false.

    What is fascinating about the notion that spending trillions of dollars the Government doesn't have as being a good thing requires one to ignore the Liberal argument that tax cuts do not stimulate economic growth.
    Its well established that tax cuts can stimulate economic growth. However, the amount of economic growth you get out of tax cuts is relative to how much of a burden upon production that current taxation levels represent. For example, if your taxes are 50% of your income, then you may not be as productive as you could be because half your income is taken from you. Thus if your taxation is reduced to 30%, you probably would be more productive.

    However, if your taxation is 30%, and you are quite productive at that level of taxation, then cutting your taxes to 25% will more than likely not result in the same level of productivity increases than going from say 40% to 30% would. If a tax cut only results in you doing something that you would have done otherwise, then your not getting a whole lot of stimulus from the tax cut. However, if a tax cut allows you to do something that taxation was preventing you from doing, then it will stimulate the economy.

    As business investment, personal investment, economic growth, employment growth, median income growth, and virtually every major economic measure was stronger in the 90s than it was following the Bush tax cuts, one would be hard pressed to argue that the level of taxation that we had in the 90s was putting a burden on productivity, consumption, or investment.

    Tell me something Mr. Econ 101. What has a greater multiplier effect on economic growth; private sector spending, or Government? When you are through explaining that, explain how printing money and borrowing another $2 trillion will make our nation stronger?
    In the long term private sector growth has a greater multiplier effect. However, if the private sector is contracting, then increases in public sector spending can certainly moderate economic contraction and shorten a recession because it introduces economic activity into the economy that would have not otherwise existed in the short term, and it increases the velocity of money in the economy.

    Once the pumped is primed again so to speak, government spending should moderate and growth in the private sector should take over.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Getting to the point that even Obama supporters need to realize he needs to shut up.
    Market fell to its lowest point in 12 years do to what he has been pushing.

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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Quote Originally Posted by Triad View Post
    Getting to the point that even Obama supporters need to realize he needs to shut up.
    Market fell to its lowest point in 12 years do to what he has been pushing.
    So then be a good capitalist and buy. I sure have.

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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Once the pumped is primed again so to speak, government spending should moderate and growth in the private sector should take over.
    Unless you realize that we're in a cyclic free market economy in which recession WILL hit again. Are we going to artificially pump the economy with $800 billion every time we hit a reccession? That could get a little expensive, dont you think?

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    Re: Obama vows to cut huge deficit in half

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Its well established that tax cuts can stimulate economic growth. However, the amount of economic growth you get out of tax cuts is relative to how much of a burden upon production that current taxation levels represent. For example, if your taxes are 50% of your income, then you may not be as productive as you could be because half your income is taken from you. Thus if your taxation is reduced to 30%, you probably would be more productive.

    However, if your taxation is 30%, and you are quite productive at that level of taxation, then cutting your taxes to 25% will more than likely not result in the same level of productivity increases than going from say 40% to 30% would. If a tax cut only results in you doing something that you would have done otherwise, then your not getting a whole lot of stimulus from the tax cut. However, if a tax cut allows you to do something that taxation was preventing you from doing, then it will stimulate the economy.

    As business investment, personal investment, economic growth, employment growth, median income growth, and virtually every major economic measure was stronger in the 90s than it was following the Bush tax cuts, one would be hard pressed to argue that the level of taxation that we had in the 90s was putting a burden on productivity, consumption, or investment.



    In the long term private sector growth has a greater multiplier effect. However, if the private sector is contracting, then increases in public sector spending can certainly moderate economic contraction and shorten a recession because it introduces economic activity into the economy that would have not otherwise existed in the short term, and it increases the velocity of money in the economy.

    Once the pumped is primed again so to speak, government spending should moderate and growth in the private sector should take over.
    That is too much logic and economic fact for the American right to understand. They only understand small words combined.. like tax cut. Even the European right knows this basic economic fact.
    PeteEU

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