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Thread: UK agents 'colluded with torture in Pakistan'

  1. #51
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    Re: UK agents 'colluded with torture in Pakistan'

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post

    Europeans are the last group of people to think themselves worthy to call themselves anybody's "moral superior."
    Where did you see that?

  2. #52
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    Re: UK agents 'colluded with torture in Pakistan'

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    Where did you see that?
    PeteEU's first post in the thread. Somehow, the very few (what was it three or so proven?) cases of "torture" from the U.S. in today's efforts against what is supposed to be all of our enemy, is supposed to lift Europe's morality above us (as long as we pretend that hundreds of thousands of Algerians weren't publicly tortured as a matter of French governmental policy just a few decades ago.)

    Hmmmmmm.... three or so American cases versus Europe's hundreds of thousands...... To some that means Europe is our "moral superior" because the few happened recently and the hundreds of thousands are "in the past."

    I grow sick and tired of the typical European attitude that European history is supposed to begin anew whenever Europe fancies itself a "pacifist" mood and therefore all focus must be upon America and any imperfection is to be exaggerated and scoffed at just to make Europeans feel better.

    Another example of this moral superiority garbage.... Maximus Zebra loves to imagine a future American civil war over economy and politics, yet he dismisses the very real riots across Europe over the economy. Any in America? Is it America that has the historical track record for behaving badly or foolishly in a crisis? Yet, our "moral superiors" find enough nerve to preach about America.
    Last edited by MSgt; 03-09-09 at 02:01 AM.

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  3. #53
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    Re: UK agents 'colluded with torture in Pakistan'

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    Source: Guardian UK

    This one is for some of our EU members who love to bash the US for condoning torture. Pot... meet kettle.
    If true, I am truely disgusted in my own country, as I hope Americans are with theirs for their part.
    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." ~ Isaac Asimov

  4. #54
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    Re: UK agents 'colluded with torture in Pakistan'

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post

    I grow sick and tired of the typical European attitude that European history is supposed to begin anew whenever Europe fancies itself a "pacifist" mood and therefore all focus must be upon America and any imperfection is to be exaggerated and scoffed at just to make Europeans feel better.
    When has any European rejected their history? You'll find that it is our bloody history that makes us so "pacifist" in the first place.

    No we don't ignore our past. And if we point out America's evil past deeds, the excuses come flying out of you guys. I have yet to hear a German give an excuse on WW2.
    "Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." ~ Isaac Asimov

  5. #55
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    Re: UK agents 'colluded with torture in Pakistan'

    Quote Originally Posted by GarzaUK View Post
    When has any European rejected their history? You'll find that it is our bloody history that makes us so "pacifist" in the first place.
    Which is followed up by some global event. This "pacifist" mood always preceded Europe's major conflicts an unrests in history. It's a false mood that only serves to fool the masses into thinking that they have finally stopped repeating their own history or that they are better than everyone else. It goes back to the Renaissance period when the elitists decided that an attitude of betterment meant they could pretend a new peaceful Europe despite reality smacking them in the face. Multiple religious inquisitions, brutal colonialisms, multiple genocides, multiple ethnic cleansings, two World Wars, and a very recent genocide of the '90s later, Europeans still pretend the "pacifist" mood. (I read a lot.)

    But....according to PeteEU and the like, a few (3?) "torture" cases made public over the last 8 years makes America the moral inferior. Or in other arguments....their equal. Europe can slaughter tens of millions of people, but if America kills 1, we are supposed to share the category with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by GarzaUK View Post
    No we don't ignore our past. And if we point out America's evil past deeds, the excuses come flying out of you guys. I have yet to hear a German give an excuse on WW2.
    Maybe it comes down to an America that doesn't need a Europe pointing fingers as much as Europe feels it needs to point fingers. Allow me to make a point. Any great exaggerated threads about the riots and childish behaviors throughout Europe in regards to this economy issue? No. But the moment some possible unrest occurs in America, the European clique will be sure to point out our troubles and preach to us about what we need to do. The very moment even the hint of a small riot occurs in America will mean that Europe's riots now have an equal. Maximus Zebra is fond of preaching about a future American civil war or economic melt down and disaster in America.......but who's rioting?

    You see, when Europeans go out of their way to point out America's imperfections, it always comes with an attitude that we are like you. That some how, tens of millions that have been slaughtered or displaced across Europe in recent centuries equates to any insignificant small stumble of America. And because the finger pointing always is accompanied with exaggeration, I am convinced that many Europeans look for America to stumble to feel better.

    At least you are seperated by the English Channel. Don't forget...continental Europe didn't consider you a part of Europe post WWII. And De Gaul politics continue to shape the continent's self-righteous mood. Don't think I hadn't noticed how quickly the continent was to ostracize the English speaking nations that saved it almost immediately after WWII and have given more and more credit to Russians with every decade despite cheering America on to fight the Cold War against Russia when it needed it. That's gratitude.

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  6. #56
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    Re: UK agents 'colluded with torture in Pakistan'

    Quote Originally Posted by GarzaUK View Post
    If true, I am truely disgusted in my own country, as I hope Americans are with theirs for their part.
    "If true?" This is exactly what I'm talking about. Do people actually think the Cold War was fought with manners? Or that Europe was saved by hugging our enemy prisoners until they provided intel? Or that any conflict doesn't involve less than honorable acts at times?

    Only the West lives in such a dream world. We imagine that Geneva is universal. We think that since we prescribed manners in war and instructed on the "proper" way to slaughter an enemy, that the entire world is now bound to our perspective or illusion. We fool ourselves so intensely that anything other than a please and thank you in an event where men slaughter and destroy each other with their bare hands must be examined and investigated.

    Funny....while our enemies chop off heads and torture quite brutally and America gets singled out by or "allies" for anything that may be considered torture or exxagerated into torture in recent years....only France has a recent history of making torture a matter of state policy. ....And this was after the Geneva Convention laid out the rules of slaughter and interrogation.

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